Liberals - what caused the problems with Greece?
- Thread starter TGregg
- Start date
The problem i think has to do with the way leaders get elected and democracy in general, combined with people todays total lack of ability to think towards the future. If the government on either side expressed any kind of fiscal discipline during boom times, and saved some of the money off of resulting budget surpluses, then they would be positioned well to stimulate the economy through decreased taxes or increased spending during economic crises, as opposed to just inflating their way out of a total mess. The problem is that government on both sides panders to people for votes, and the second there is a surplus they figure out how to spend it to get more votes to get re-elected. Good luck getting elected on the slogan: "we must save this budget surplus in order to prepare for the inevitable crisis which is coming some time in the future, at a date which i dont know." In fact i think if a president would have said that at the height of the tech bubble or the housing bubble, the overwhelming consensus amongst the majority of people would have been that the guy was actually insane, people would have tried to have him comitted.
Government in general considers it a huge deal just to balance a frigging budget during boom times, if you live your life like that and spend every dime which comes your way at some time in your life you will end up out on the street, however government/corporations get a free pass to spend as much as they want during booms, and print their way out of busts. Where as the average every day citizen does not.
If government, or people in general on either side were ever able to express any kind of restraint, you could actually keep the economy on a slow growing upward pace permanently but it doesnt happen. I guess it is just the nature of the majority of the population today to spend everything they make with no regard to the future.
I guess the 2 main emotions which drive the stock market according to Livermore, (fear, and greed) are what drive most people to make most economic decisions as well.
Actually what Ricter said is spot on. The invention of the internet/modern PC created a dramatic shift in the necessity of non skilled labourers, or labourers in the western world anyways. It is probably still cheaper to have labourers from third world countries do manual labour but computers will take that over eventually as well.
Invention of the modern PC/internet is also drastically speeding up the process of globalisation, and balancing out wage discrepancies between G7 countries and third world countries. Barring a total collapse of the world wide monetary system, pretty soon there will be no such thing as a middle class, there will be people working to eat, and people controlling the businesses necessary for the other people to eat. Which side do you want to be on? Large groups of People only have power so long as they are useful. That is why i see a mass extinction looming on the horizon.
I don't know when, or even what is the right medicine. I've just sickenly eliminated a half-dozen FTE's thanks to a new welding machine (robot), yet I hope that those people, and people like them, will nevertheless be able to buy my products. That my taxes are going to pay their UI or, worst case, welfare, is in a twisted, probably sick kind of way, my karma. In a sense they are now part owners of the machine.
Certainly, all those countries have a history of leftism. And no, other than actual Soviet satellites, 1960's Greece was in a commie class all by themselves.
Real stable history:
"After liberation, Greece experienced a bitter civil war between communist and anticommunist forces, which led to economic devastation and severe social tensions between rightists and largely communist leftists for the next 30 years.[25] The next 20 years were characterized by marginalisation of the left in the political and social spheres but also by rapid economic growth, propelled in part by the Marshall Plan.
King Constantine's dismissal of George Papandreou's centrist government in July 1965 prompted a prolonged period of political turbulence which culminated in a coup d'état on 21 April 1967 by the United States-backed Regime of the Colonels. The brutal suppression of the Athens Polytechnic uprising on 17 November 1973 sent shockwaves through the regime, and a counter-coup established Brigadier Dimitrios Ioannidis as dictator. On 20 July 1974, as Turkey invaded the island of Cyprus, the regime collapsed.
Territorial evolution of Greece until 1947.
Former premier Konstantinos Karamanlis was invited back from Paris where he had lived in self-exile since 1963, marking the beginning of the Metapolitefsi era. On the 14 August 1974 Greek forces withdrew from the integrated military structure of NATO in protest at the Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus.[26][27] The first multiparty elections since 1964 were held on the first anniversary of the Polytechnic uprising. A democratic and republican constitution was promulgated on 11 June 1975 following a referendum which abolished the monarchy."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece#20th_century
Real stable history:
"After liberation, Greece experienced a bitter civil war between communist and anticommunist forces, which led to economic devastation and severe social tensions between rightists and largely communist leftists for the next 30 years.[25] The next 20 years were characterized by marginalisation of the left in the political and social spheres but also by rapid economic growth, propelled in part by the Marshall Plan.
King Constantine's dismissal of George Papandreou's centrist government in July 1965 prompted a prolonged period of political turbulence which culminated in a coup d'état on 21 April 1967 by the United States-backed Regime of the Colonels. The brutal suppression of the Athens Polytechnic uprising on 17 November 1973 sent shockwaves through the regime, and a counter-coup established Brigadier Dimitrios Ioannidis as dictator. On 20 July 1974, as Turkey invaded the island of Cyprus, the regime collapsed.
Territorial evolution of Greece until 1947.
Former premier Konstantinos Karamanlis was invited back from Paris where he had lived in self-exile since 1963, marking the beginning of the Metapolitefsi era. On the 14 August 1974 Greek forces withdrew from the integrated military structure of NATO in protest at the Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus.[26][27] The first multiparty elections since 1964 were held on the first anniversary of the Polytechnic uprising. A democratic and republican constitution was promulgated on 11 June 1975 following a referendum which abolished the monarchy."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece#20th_century
Yes, so more "labor" is needed in terms of research and development. More technology, more research, more cures, more discoveries. Also, there are some things which will be done manually for centuries to come. Also, there has to be laborers to implement the new developments. When broadband was new, you still had to have a cable man come to your house and install it, etc. More developments create new technological demands... Do you people think we are at some technological zenith? Ricter is clearly an older guy, it's apparent in his dated thinking...