Liberal Film Critic Roeper Slams 9/11 Conspiracy Nuts
- Thread starter Pabst
- Start date
the kennedy assasination sure smell sour, but it's true that there's very little [if none] evidence to support the case for a conspiracy...new research has been done latelty and a digital reconstruction of old photographs and flims has highlited some peculiar evidence not seen before but still almost nothin'.... that there is reasonable grounds for doubt? sure, but it's not even close to 9/11...to compare the 2 events and sayin' that the attacks like the jfk case show no pattern of deception and no trace of a cover up u gotta be bilnd or in complete denial.
Quote from Pabst:
You're using many fallacious arguments.
Not my hobby, I almost never do. I will give you $10 for each you find.
First off Peklo, there's survivorship bias in many of these "trades." IOW's if I look down the list of WTC tenants and find large put buyers in one or two, what about the others?
Good point in a different way. Can you or the SEC show us that there were huge put buying in the scale of 50-80 times of the daily average in other stocks completely unrelated to 911 in the previous week?
Also, I would like to see that fundmanager gentleman's trading records going back a few years back to see if he did similar putbuyings on the same magnitude.
Also I would like to ask what is the point of buying puts and stocks at the SAME TIME, but I will ask this in the option section.
Cantor was the only firm that was close to being WIPED out and their stock (espeed, the Treasury trading platform) rose the days before 9/11.
I fail to see your point. That nobody bought puts on it? hell whoever did the buying they diversified, but they couldn't diversify
into everybody.
HAL which is a conspiracy nuts favorite was salvaged not only the next week but for the next year.
Again, must be my bad, but I don't see the point. Unless you are explaining away stocks, that nobody complained about.
As far as "luck", UAL was breaking down for weeks into 9/11. Surprised there were put buyers?
To the magnitude of 70 times of the usual? By the way what's the story with the other 2 companies I mentioned? You carefully left them out (so did the SEC), because you don't have an answer for it.
As far as probabilities, ...
Here is a better, but unrelated probability question:
What is the chance that exitpolls don't work in states where there is an electronic machine without papertrail, but they work perfectly (agreeing with the final result) where there is a papertrail?
You're using many fallacious arguments.
Not my hobby, I almost never do. I will give you $10 for each you find.
First off Peklo, there's survivorship bias in many of these "trades." IOW's if I look down the list of WTC tenants and find large put buyers in one or two, what about the others?
Good point in a different way. Can you or the SEC show us that there were huge put buying in the scale of 50-80 times of the daily average in other stocks completely unrelated to 911 in the previous week?
Also, I would like to see that fundmanager gentleman's trading records going back a few years back to see if he did similar putbuyings on the same magnitude.
Also I would like to ask what is the point of buying puts and stocks at the SAME TIME, but I will ask this in the option section.
Cantor was the only firm that was close to being WIPED out and their stock (espeed, the Treasury trading platform) rose the days before 9/11.
I fail to see your point. That nobody bought puts on it? hell whoever did the buying they diversified, but they couldn't diversify
into everybody.
HAL which is a conspiracy nuts favorite was salvaged not only the next week but for the next year.
Again, must be my bad, but I don't see the point. Unless you are explaining away stocks, that nobody complained about.
As far as "luck", UAL was breaking down for weeks into 9/11. Surprised there were put buyers?
To the magnitude of 70 times of the usual? By the way what's the story with the other 2 companies I mentioned? You carefully left them out (so did the SEC), because you don't have an answer for it.
As far as probabilities, ...
Here is a better, but unrelated probability question:
What is the chance that exitpolls don't work in states where there is an electronic machine without papertrail, but they work perfectly (agreeing with the final result) where there is a papertrail?
You're clearly a sane person. Certainly no offense meant by fallacious. Not a point by point rebuttal but don't get hung up on BS like 900% of normal volume, blah , blah, blah. Equity options aren't real volume heavy. I've seen stocks that trade 30 options a day suddenly trade 10,000 in a day because a random manager decides to use some esoteric strategy. If you take away that single hedge fund from AMR it doesn't appear the options traded anything more than usual. And while I don't have the data I would BET BLIND that we would find a couple of DOZEN stocks with weird volume preceeding 9/11. Like I say in options that's a matter of course. The reason I mentioned Cantor is that stock was BY FAR the best short yet it rose into the attack. Why do folks fixate on MER's activity. Was their opperation wiped out? Hardly. I'm not even sure if they had space in the Twin Towers.
By far the biggest "common sense" thing I can say about this is, No one SMART enough to concoct this plan would be STUPID enough to trade U.S. Exchange traded options. There's SO many easier ways to hide your business from regulators. The CBOE doesn't even need ask the SEC to find out a customer's name on a trade. MM's in options pits have been picked off so many times on inside news that the exchanges are mega pro-active looking for it.
Like I told Bit, " When you trade a listed futures, options or stock in the United States your identity is completely transparent to regulators. No warrants needed. That's why successful "inside" traders use elaborate off shore omnibus accounts. The SEC may get as far as knowing the trade was from Acme Partners LLC of Thailand as executed by Goldman but they have a bitch finding out who the "partners" in Acme are. It doesn't appear any "ruse" was used on 9/11. "
Or as another poster mentioned on a different thread, these days one can use OTC derivatives. Whichever the case only a really STUPID asshole who has inside info of such magnitude is going to use an exchange traded product unless set up off-shore.
As a matter of disclosure, I've mentioned here before, I blew my entire year in 2001 because of 9/11 on an options trade! So I'd love to be able to say I was "picked off" lol. I was long and wrong........
By far the biggest "common sense" thing I can say about this is, No one SMART enough to concoct this plan would be STUPID enough to trade U.S. Exchange traded options. There's SO many easier ways to hide your business from regulators. The CBOE doesn't even need ask the SEC to find out a customer's name on a trade. MM's in options pits have been picked off so many times on inside news that the exchanges are mega pro-active looking for it.
Like I told Bit, " When you trade a listed futures, options or stock in the United States your identity is completely transparent to regulators. No warrants needed. That's why successful "inside" traders use elaborate off shore omnibus accounts. The SEC may get as far as knowing the trade was from Acme Partners LLC of Thailand as executed by Goldman but they have a bitch finding out who the "partners" in Acme are. It doesn't appear any "ruse" was used on 9/11. "
Or as another poster mentioned on a different thread, these days one can use OTC derivatives. Whichever the case only a really STUPID asshole who has inside info of such magnitude is going to use an exchange traded product unless set up off-shore.
As a matter of disclosure, I've mentioned here before, I blew my entire year in 2001 because of 9/11 on an options trade! So I'd love to be able to say I was "picked off" lol. I was long and wrong........
Quote from Pekelo:
Quote from Pabst:
You're using many fallacious arguments.
Not my hobby, I almost never do. I will give you $10 for each you find.
First off Peklo, there's survivorship bias in many of these "trades." IOW's if I look down the list of WTC tenants and find large put buyers in one or two, what about the others?
Good point in a different way. Can you or the SEC show us that there were huge put buying in the scale of 50-80 times of the daily average in other stocks completely unrelated to 911 in the previous week?
Also, I would like to see that fundmanager gentleman's trading records going back a few years back to see if he did similar putbuyings on the same magnitude.
Also I would like to ask what is the point of buying puts and stocks at the SAME TIME, but I will ask this in the option section.
Cantor was the only firm that was close to being WIPED out and their stock (espeed, the Treasury trading platform) rose the days before 9/11.
I fail to see your point. That nobody bought puts on it? hell whoever did the buying they diversified, but they couldn't diversify
into everybody.
HAL which is a conspiracy nuts favorite was salvaged not only the next week but for the next year.
Again, must be my bad, but I don't see the point. Unless you are explaining away stocks, that nobody complained about.
As far as "luck", UAL was breaking down for weeks into 9/11. Surprised there were put buyers?
To the magnitude of 70 times of the usual? By the way what's the story with the other 2 companies I mentioned? You carefully left them out (so did the SEC), because you don't have an answer for it.
As far as probabilities, ...
Here is a better, but unrelated probability question:
What is the chance that exitpolls don't work in states where there is an electronic machine without papertrail, but they work perfectly (agreeing with the final result) where there is a papertrail?
Nothing impulsive about someone who had $4,000,000 at the ready in an account to buy premium.
Bottom line Bit. The 9/11 Commission issued a report. There were comprehensive findings contained. You can choose to accept the report or not. However you offer nothing factual in rebuttal. I realize this is a message board but by the same I feel little need to speculate outside of trading and gambling. A discussion of unknowns is pointless.
You're a talented guy. Take some time off and work on an investigative piece. I mean it. I suddenly quit trading in '04 and ran for Congress. I'll never have an experience like that again. You know markets. That in itself would give you a leg up on most of the shoddy bloggers I've seen attempt to explain these 9/11 trading issues. I doubt you'll find much but here's the opp to stick it in people's faces......
Bottom line Bit. The 9/11 Commission issued a report. There were comprehensive findings contained. You can choose to accept the report or not. However you offer nothing factual in rebuttal. I realize this is a message board but by the same I feel little need to speculate outside of trading and gambling. A discussion of unknowns is pointless.
You're a talented guy. Take some time off and work on an investigative piece. I mean it. I suddenly quit trading in '04 and ran for Congress. I'll never have an experience like that again. You know markets. That in itself would give you a leg up on most of the shoddy bloggers I've seen attempt to explain these 9/11 trading issues. I doubt you'll find much but here's the opp to stick it in people's faces......
pabst, those trades occourred just before 9/11; if some1 was informed much earlier than a couple of days before the attacks where spikes in put tradin' occourred they prolly would have had the time to position themselves in a more secretive fashion...8/9 sept are the days where the unusual acitvities begun...i frankly wouldnt expect anyone to establish an offshore account ready to trade in such a short period of time. those trades were greed driven, the insiders who initiated the puts transactions thought they could get away with and many infact did, that's as simple as that.
the commission investigation was superficial and misleadin', coverin' only aspects that couldnt be disputed. if the government was involved in it do u think an investigation conducted by partisan members and other people directly connected with the state could be trusted upon? this is where your arguments fall apart as well.
also your statements about the conspiratorial sites does nothin' to diminsh the credibilty of the evidence available and may i say the lack of it. i have not noticed the massive pattern of deception thx to those domains. undisputable photographic evidence, witnesses and scholars studies have made me change my mind about what really happened that day. it's a chain of events and testimonies by the white house and many victims that tell the tale not all the speculation about what happened to the passengers of flight 77.
the commission investigation was superficial and misleadin', coverin' only aspects that couldnt be disputed. if the government was involved in it do u think an investigation conducted by partisan members and other people directly connected with the state could be trusted upon? this is where your arguments fall apart as well.
also your statements about the conspiratorial sites does nothin' to diminsh the credibilty of the evidence available and may i say the lack of it. i have not noticed the massive pattern of deception thx to those domains. undisputable photographic evidence, witnesses and scholars studies have made me change my mind about what really happened that day. it's a chain of events and testimonies by the white house and many victims that tell the tale not all the speculation about what happened to the passengers of flight 77.
you have over 3000 murders and billions in damage and we cant find out who benefitted from the spike in volume of those puts??? you are smokin crack. if this money trail had led to arabs they woulda plastered that shit on cnnfoxabcnbccbs faster than you sold ur soul. yet... padilla was obviously not involved in a "dirty bomb" conspiracy but you relish his lack of due process? wtfffffffffff ?????
wtc7 is going to be discussed because it is the easiest battle to win. THEY FUCKING ADMIT IT !!!!!!!!! they pulled the bldg... you dont need fema or nist. the owner pulled the bldg he admits it ...HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
watch it come down... it is a controlled demo.... no ifs ands or buts. it is the starting point for all other disagreements.
as far as the kennedy assasination... WATCH HIS HEAD GO BACK.... HE WAS HIT FROM THE FRONT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!