Liberal ban on magazine size.

[omegapoint]

Quote from Maverick74:

You know I hate citing Michael Moore for a reference, but he did point out in "Bowling for Columbine" that gun ownership in Canada was substantially higher then the US yet they have little to no gun deaths. Same with Switzerland. Maybe it's not really about the guns. Hmm.....

I even agree that "guns don't kill, their handlers do", its only
logical, it'd be like saying cars kill or airplanes but what about
assault weapons? There must exist the possibility that there are bad people who would prefer an automatic multi round clip and
they had to settle for something less because its harder to
get. Accounting for the possibilities is why there are security
and insurance industries at all. Improved screening is reasonable.

 

[Trader666]

I redefine points? Yeah... OK Mr. Las Vegas Sands
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3064279#post3064279

My "unsolicited pepper?" So you think your "Damien" bullshit doesn't warrant anything? What a whiny little pansy brat... just like your buddy Deranged Rover. Grow up little boy.

Quote from omegapoint:

Just tossing one of your debating tactics of redefining a point
back at you.... Oh, and fuck you in advance since surely your reply will have a little unsolicited pepper added to it.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from omegapoint:

I even agree that "guns don't kill, their handlers do", its only
logical, it'd be like saying cars kill or airplanes but what about
assault weapons? There must exist the possibility that there are bad people who would prefer an automatic multi round clip and
they had to settle for something less because its harder to
get. Accounting for the possibilities is why there are security
and insurance industries at all. Improved screening is reasonable.

Here's the thing. I think your argument can work when dealing with "rational" people. However, guys like Jared are anything but rational and they are never going to make a rational decision. They will find a way to get the gun they want and kill whoever they want to kill. Yes, gun laws are very effective at keeping normal, law abiding soccer dads from buying that 20 round clip. But is that really who we are trying to stop here? The soccer dad? Or Jared?

 

[Trader666]

Ditto for libturds which is why it's futile to discuss this with them.

Quote from Maverick74:

Here's the thing. I think your argument can work when dealing with "rational" people. However, guys like Jared are anything but rational

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Quote from Ricter:

Were I to say publically that doing something about poverty would be doing something about crime, many on the right would immediately tell me that poverty does not cause crime. No, the causative factors are not structural when we're critiquing the classes below us, they are "character flaws", but the causative factors are structural when we are critiquing the (abusive) classes above us, and thus not our character.

This is an interesting observation. You assume however that the government can actually decide to "do something" about poverty and make it so. Nearly 50 years of failed anti-poverty programs and trillions of dollars down the drain would counsel caution on that score.

Research has proved that the factors that will get you out and keep you out of poverty have little to do with government policy. Things like don't have children out of wedlock, stay married, finish school, don't do drugs and stay out of jail. Unfortunately, these tend to be things that are largely chosen behavior and hence reflective of character and culture.

What the government can do is twofold. One, provide a healthy economy so people doing the right things can find decent jobs. Two, don't adopt policies that reward dysfunctional behavior and thus undermine the traits that keep one out of poverty.

 

[Trader666]

+1

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

This is an interesting observation. You assume however that the government can actually decide to "do something" about poverty and make it so. Nearly 50 years of failed anti-poverty programs and trillions of dollars down the drain would counsel caution on that score.

Research has proved that the factors that will get you out and keep you out of poverty have little to do with government policy. Things like don't have children out of wedlock, stay married, finish school, don't do drugs and stay out of jail. Unfortunately, these tend to be things that are largely chosen behavior and hence reflective of character and culture.

What the government can do is twofold. One, provide a healthy economy so people doing the right things can find decent jobs. Two, don't adopt policies that reward dysfunctional behavior and thus undermine the traits that keep one out of poverty.

 

[omegapoint]

Quote from Maverick74:

Here's the thing. I think your argument can work when dealing with "rational" people. However, guys like Jared are anything but rational and they are never going to make a rational decision. They will find a way to get the gun they want and kill whoever they want to kill. Yes, gun laws are very effective at keeping normal, law abiding soccer dads from buying that 20 round clip. But is that really who we are trying to stop here? The soccer dad? Or Jared?

There is no way to tell if someone is rational when he's at the counter. He might dress for the occaision even. Improving backround checks is reasonable. Then it kinda
gets down to, at how many rounds do you draw the line?
Which ironically and metaphorically is what alot of disagreements
have as their ...not solutions but compromises. Even soccer dads should be happy with say 10-12? Not many home invasions
have more than 4 or 5 kids involved I'm guessing..and they should get a dog, best alarm you could ask for.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from Covertibility:
... Why in the world does one need a gun in the first place?
My best answer: The world is a big scary place for these incompetent people so the gun in their minds provides them some sort of protection.

Quote from omegapoint:
Even liberals own guns... I even own a gun...

Looks like two of ET's biggest liberals need to talk.

 

[LORD KAL-EL]

Quote from Ricter:

Citizens of every political stripe seem hell-bent, for the past couple of decades that I've noticed, on safety over freedom. Is there a culture on this planet with more fear of death than us?

I have no clue since I don't share your culture of being a liberal pantywaist.

 

[LORD KAL-EL]

Quote from Maverick74:

You know I hate citing Michael Moore for a reference, but he did point out in "Bowling for Columbine" that gun ownership in Canada was substantially higher then the US yet they have little to no gun deaths. Same with Switzerland. Maybe it's not really about the guns. Hmm.....

It's misleading to use switzerland as an example
"The Swiss army has long been a militia trained and structured to rapidly respond against foreign aggression. Swiss males grow up expecting to undergo basic military training, usually at age 20 in the Rekrutenschule (German for "recruit school"), the initial boot camp, after which Swiss men remain part of the "militia" in reserve capacity until age 30 (age 34 for officers). Each such individual is required to keep his army-issued personal weapon (the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers, medical and postal personnel) at home with a specified personal retention quantity of government-issued personal ammunition (50 rounds 5.56 mm / 48 rounds 9mm), which is sealed and inspected regularly to ensure that no unauthorized use takes place.[3] The ammunition are intended for use while traveling to the army barracks in case of invasion.

When their period of service has ended, militiamen have the choice of keeping their personal weapon and other selected items of their equipment. In this case of retention, the rifle is sent to the weapons factory where the fully automatic function is removed; the rifle is then returned to the discharged owner. The rifle is then a semi-automatic or self-loading rifle."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland