Level II

Originally posted by DATTrader


Just to clarify Vlad's response the .924 bid would not in theory displace the .92 bid if the two bids were MM's bids but it WOULD (as suggested) become a higher priority bid in an ECN book.

I say in theory because the real question I suppose is can MM's even bid/offer beyond even cents increments. I don't see why the Naz system would allow it if it makes no difference in the execution order anyway which it apparently does not.
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As far as I know, you can't send orders with "fractional" pennies to MM's. Actually I believe only ISLD and ARCA accept those kind of orders.
If you send an order to buy at 15.501 on ISLD, it'll show up rounded to 15.50 on L2 but it'll show up on ISLD book at 15.501. You will get filled before any of the 15.50 ISLD orders.

Hope this helps.

Tony
 
Originally posted by DATTrader


Just to clarify Vlad's response the .924 bid would not in theory displace the .92 bid if the two bids were MM's bids but it WOULD (as suggested) become a higher priority bid in an ECN book.

I say in theory because the real question I suppose is can MM's even bid/offer beyond even cents increments. I don't see why the Naz system would allow it if it makes no difference in the execution order anyway which it apparently does not.
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Thanks, DATTrader. It certainly would become a higher priority bid in an ECN books as ECNs allow for a finer grid. But once it's rounded in the Naz system, the subpenny increments are ignored, as far as I understand. That's the way they are trying to keep the order flow after all. MMs can bid/offer in subpennies when they do it on ECNs only, again, as far as I know (which in some instances is not very far :D)
 
Originally posted by vladiator


Come on, remember all the bitching when they were decimalizing? They could have added as many decimals as they wanted. How many did they want? AS FEW AS POSSIBLE. Are they gonna have more decimals in Supermontage? NOPE. Same reason. They want everyone to make money? Year right. They want ECNs belly-up. They want MMs to make money - the more coarse the grid, the better (for them).
Get real.
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apparently you missed my subtle sarcasm...
 
Originally posted by Tony01


As far as I know, you can't send orders with "fractional" pennies to MM's. Actually I believe only ISLD and ARCA accept those kind of orders.

Tony
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We were talking about the ability for MM's to post "fractional penny" bids/offers to the Naz system rather than us sending such orders to them....which I agree you/we definitely cannot do.

But now you guys have me thinking.....

With SuperMontage what are the repercussions? Say the best bid is 50.01 with 2000 ISLD (INLD for SuperMont) shares in that bid at $50.01. Then you post a 500 share bid to ISLD at 50.011 just prior to ISLD/INLD becoming the priority Market Participant to receive the next SuperMontage execution.

Thus the next sell order for 1000 shares entered into SUperMontage would have 500 shares executed against your bid and 500 against the 2000 ISLD shares bid before you at $50.01? And would not the first 500 shares executed against your bid execute at the $50.011? Hmmmm......

PS In relation the the first post of this thread, the 500 share bid at 50.011 would show up separately as Island at $50.011 in Realtick (if you had it set to show the ISLD book) however the same 500 shares would show mixed in with the 2000 shares at the $50.01 bid (2500 total) as ILND via the Naz Supermontage quote.
 
Originally posted by bungrider


apparently you missed my subtle sarcasm...
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:D Sorry, must have been a bit too subtle for me at the moment. The language thing you know. English is my 4th language after all. Now I see it :D
 
ISLD, ARCA, INCA, REDI, most of the ECNs allow sub-penny bids/offers. Although these sub- penny bids/offers may not appear on some level II screens (ie those without integrated books) they are still present. Right now with Supersoes these sub-penny bids obviously can't be hit be a soes order (most ECN's aren't soesable). But if you trade through one of these ECNs, which most everyone does, you are able to hit the sub-penny bids/offers with a direct order, and they get price priority.

In my opinion if you are trading using any ECN and you don't have integrated books on you platform you are missing important information! It's like driving around with one eye closed, you can do it but why would you? Not to mention the fact that if you are at all concerned about ECN fees and liquidity credits you need this info to know where the 'shaved' bids and offers are to avoid crossing them and paying a fee.:eek:
 
Originally posted by MACD_addy
Right now with Supersoes these sub-penny bids obviously can't be hit be a soes order (most ECN's aren't soesable)
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Unless the sub-penny bid is posted through a SOESABLE Ecn such as Isld. THen the subpenny bid could be hit via SOES however you would not have the control to do so, it would purely be a function of whether the ECN was the next SOESABLE market participant when you went to hit the bid via SOES.
 
Originally posted by MACD_addy
When did this happen?
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July I believe. You now see there quotes via the Nasdaq quote as ILND and via the separate Island feed still as ISLD. THey are phasing in to it and not sure which stocks they are SOESable for at this point. If you see ILND though then you know they are SOESable in that stock.
 
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