Letter from Paul Tudor Jones

Quote from Trader666:

Oh please... tell it to the Federal Reserve:
On January 1, 1994, the Chinese government unified its exchange rate system by abolishing the official rate. Overnight the market value of China's currency fell by 50%.
http://www.frbsf.org/econrsrch/wklyltr/wklyltr98/el98-01.html

Funny you seem to have ignored the word "unified" in the sentence. It is clear from the article that there were two exchange rates, one "official" and one actual, before 1994. The "official rate" at the time only applied to foreign tourists to China who wanted to exchange US $ into RMB at certain government agency, say, China Travel Agency. The actual market rate at the time was totally a different rate, and the market rate applied to everything else outside tourism. Even at Bank of China, the exchange rate was $1 = 8.7 RMB if you had a Chinese friend and asked him/her to help you.

The former Soviet Union also had an official exchange rate, in which one US dollar= 1 Rb. Of course, they could only enforce it on foreign tourists.


Again, please ask a Chinese from mainland China about the actual exchange rate before 1994 if you know one.
 
Quote from psytrade:

I think in that context, its more like a relationship of "You let me be a producer, and I'll let you be a Consumer" is at play. The thing is when the machinations of finance get involved, you have leveraged trades effecting relationships and you start to see that the original setup (you let me be a producer, and I'll let you be a consumer) is a false premise.

Its only when the layered levels of finance retool the real economy and turn it into a kind of capital flight situation do people realize that at the very bottom, there is a flawed logic in the China USD relationship. Even a revaluation is a band aid. In the sense that the premise for a trade relationship is flawed, I mean that its a zero sum relationship, but we've been both breathing the fumes of the relationship for a little while now instead of been driven by something more viable and authentic in the long term. But given how Markets are in zero-sum, eventually both parties end up paying the bill for a flawed relationship. Perhaps George Soros' term use to describe a false premise in which the global financial system is built is effective in describing this better.

That's a whole lot of rubbish given the fact that markets are not "zero sum" in any way. Why you do not understand this at all ? These kind of flawed ideas are what make ET pretty stupid sometimes. And you'll go on and on with your flawed theory, expanding on it at will, without ever understanding your basic premise is just plain wrong.

It's like the Coin Flipping thread. A whole lot of bs masquerading as intellectual debate. Again, basic fundamental premise wrong.
 
Quote from pepper_john:

Funny you seem to have ignored the word "unified" in the sentence. It is clear from the article that there were two exchange rates, one "official" and one actual, before 1994. The "official rate" at the time only applied to foreign tourists to China who wanted to exchange US $ into RMB at certain government agency, say, China Travel Agency. The actual market rate at the time was totally a different rate, and the market rate applied to everything else outside tourism. Even at Bank of China, the exchange rate was $1 = 8.7 RMB if you had a Chinese friend and asked him/her to help you.

The former Soviet Union also had an official exchange rate, in which one US dollar= 1 Rb. Of course, they could only enforce it on foreign tourists.


Again, please ask a Chinese from mainland China about the actual exchange rate before 1994 if you know one.

The issue at hand isn't what the market rate in China was for the purposes of your friend and his anecdotal evidence. The question at hand is whether this devaluation affected the region and was a precipitating factor in the later Asian currency crisis.
The balance of the evidence, according to this paper, suggests that it was. The follow-up to the quote cited:


Of course, some of this decline simply reflected a convergence between the official rate and the actual market rate. Although it is inherently difficult to say what share of transactions already were taking place at the market rate, some estimates put the share as high as 80%, in which case the effective devaluation was only about 10%. However, since the market rate itself depreciated about 40% during the previous two years, the fact that some transactions were already occurring at the market rate may not be that important. It only reduces the suddeness of the devaluation.
Another reason to be cautious about the effective magnitude of the Chinese devaluation is that during this period China's inflation rate exceeded the U.S. inflation rate, so that some of the devaluation simply reflected a higher overall rate of price increase in China. Again, it is hard to say how important this consideration is, since China's consumer price data are notoriously difficult to interpret. On the face of it, China's 26% rate of inflation during 1994 would seem to offset much of the nominal devaluation. However, most experts agree that China's official inflation rate greatly overstates the actual inflation rate, particularly in the tradeable goods sector. Moreover, the same kind of inflation-induced real appreciation was taking place in most ASEAN nations, albeit to a lesser degree.
Despite these caveats concerning the magnitude of the effective devaluation by China, evidence suggests that it had a real impact on China's export competitiveness. For example, China's aggregate trade balance went from a deficit of $10.6 billion in 1993 to a surplus of $4.2 billion in 1994. At the same time, trade balances rapidly deteriorated in Thailand, Malaysia, and Indonesia. Only in the Philippines did the trade balance remain relatively stable.
Clearly, China's devaluation represented a severe negative shock to the economies of Southeast Asia. The question now is to understand how this kind of shock alters the incentives of central banks to support their exchange rates. We argue that this loss of competitiveness gave central banks in the region an incentive to devalue, that currency speculators knew this, and that this reassessment of the costs and benefits of devaluation precipitated an attack on these countries' currencies.

I'm familiar with black market rates in Third World countries, and how most transactions get done at that rate rather than the official rate. But if the black market rate was also depreciating 40% in the run-up to the official devaluation, then the effect on the rest of Southeast Asia would still have been severe.
 
Quote from trefoil:

The issue at hand isn't what the market rate in China was for the purposes of your friend and his anecdotal evidence. The question at hand is whether this devaluation affected the region and was a precipitating factor in the later Asian currency crisis.
The balance of the evidence, according to this paper, suggests that it was. The follow-up to the quote cited:



I'm familiar with black market rates in Third World countries, and how most transactions get done at that rate rather than the official rate. But if the black market rate was also depreciating 40% in the run-up to the official devaluation, then the effect on the rest of Southeast Asia would still have been severe.

Again, please ask a Chinese from mainland China about the actual exchange rate prior to 1994 if you know one, instead of blindly believing some fed reserchers in SF whose experience with RMB, if any, was probably only with the official exchange rate. Anecdotal evidence is still better than imaged ones.
 
Market rates fluctuate, while official rates don't. That's generally what happens in Third World countries. Also, the tendency is for the black market rate to fall relative to the official one, else why would there be an official rate in the first place?
These things are commonplaces in poor countries. So the Fed's point, as I quoted it, is probably correct. It would actually be unusual if it weren't.
Anyway, you could always ask your friend. As for me, I'll be seeing some folks who emigrated here from the mainland during the week. We'll see if any of them can remember that far back.
 
Nice - What started out as the typical ET slug fest has proven to be pretty informative. I had always assumed that the Asian contagion had been precipitated by a Japanese pull back in investment in emerging markets. The comments about China's devaluation really help put this into perspective. The core issue for emergent markets in Asia was their exposure to debt service (in Yen) with depreciating currencies. The hard lesson being to keep "hot money" out of the economy if it can't really be absorbed / put to work in a meaningful way.

The zero sum context is a bit hard to grasp because it's really framed in pure economic terms based on idealized models. We all intuitively know that the short run governs most policy / business decisions, not long run models. I do like the Austrian schools take that it is pretty hard to accurately model / predict an economic interaction. It dovetails nicely with Soro's view that many relationships (including market relationships) have a "reflexive" component which causes them to indeterminate at times.

Economic models are useful abstractions, but their limitations are probably not grasped until the sh-- hits the fan. Examples are all over the place where models make underlying assumptions which prove to be in accurate. Market Failure is something no one seems to plan for - Ask any financial rocket scientist

Long Term Capital Management

Housing Bubble - Banking System - Securitization Derivative Market Failure

Good Luck Traders - This week will be interesting :D
 
Quote from MohdSalleh:

This is what a Buddhist monk says about India,"must have different concepts and expectations."
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Rumor Has It... A Note From Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche


Within each member of the first world's heart there is a George Bush, Hu Jintao, or a Tony Blair. What I'm saying is that they come from their first world countries to a developing nation and expecting that everything should be exactly how it is at home.

Here in India, worlds like "delay", "cancellation", "confirmation", "cleanliness", "no problem," "yes" and "no" all have different meanings. And in fact, if you learn how to appreciate those different definitions, you will find that this is what makes this part of the world magical.

So, people who are wishing to come from the first world expecting their toilet will flush, and a hot shower, who are married to the whole principal of no trespassing, who value individual rights and personal space, might as well just look at pictures, preferably black and white and especially taken by Cartier Bresson and Raghu Rai.

Great insights! Are u from India or have u live there?
 
Quote from hippie:

Great insights! Are u from India or have u live there?

No I am not from India and neither have i "lived" there. However, i have been to the region a couple of times and am deeply interested in Hindu and Buddhist philosophy.
 
Quote from Now is Now:

Clown....every weekend this clown turns up like a bad smell....

Next, Garcia will be telling us Jones doesn't make a profit from trading....:eek:


NiN
Is he is "so profitable" then why is he banning withdrawals from his fund?
Because he had SEVERE losses.

Newbies:
They don't want you to know the FACT that he banned all withdrawals.
Most ponzis ban withdrawals in their later stages, just before the fall.
Google about this withdrawal banning.
The inconvenient truth they don't want you to find out.
 
Quote from crgarcia:

Is he is "so profitable" then why is he banning withdrawals from his fund?
Because he had SEVERE losses.

Newbies:
They don't want you to know the FACT that he banned all withdrawals.
Most ponzis ban withdrawals in their later stages, just before the fall.
Google about this withdrawal banning.
The inconvenient truth they don't want you to find out.
he must be a daytrader
 
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