Lets Tax The Shit out of the Rich.

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from Max E. Pad:

Dodged it again hey?


"tell me how raising the tax rate on "the rich" by 5-10% is going to boost private sector wages." This is the argument Obama is trying to make in order to get re-elected, surely atleast 1 liberal will be able to explain this to me.

You could make an argument that it might. If you could somehow assure that raising the rates on the rich made it's way into new stimulus packages that went towards investment in Research and Development, or other like sectors dominated by private industry, then you could argue this funding would make private jobs more in demand and higher paid.

But we all know this is horseshit, as the money would just be taken to fund an increasingly bloated, monstrosity of government that has never been efficient at anything except killing (people and business).

 

[Ricter]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

You could make an argument that it might. If you could somehow assure that raising the rates on the rich made it's way into new stimulus packages that went towards investment in Research and Development, or other like sectors dominated by private industry, then you could argue this funding would make private jobs more in demand and higher paid.

But we all know this is horseshit, as the money would just be taken to fund an increasingly bloated, monstrosity of government that has never been efficient at anything except killing (people and business).

Well said, you're on your game this morning. I agree, for redistribution (we need a new, "corpspeak" kind of word, akin to "rightsizing", to sanitize it) and/or stimulus spending to work, it cannot be misdirected. The ROI has got to be there.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from Ricter:

Well said, you're on your game this morning. I agree, for redistribution (we need a new, "corpspeak" kind of word, akin to "rightsizing", to sanitize it) and/or stimulus spending to work, it cannot be misdirected. The ROI has got to be there.

I would argue that it will never be able to be done. Ever. ROI will just be fudged (as almost all statistics that come out of government are) to serve a purpose or benefit a specific interest group. The government will never be able to properly channel OR regulate any such program. This is why I (and many like me) believe the government must be removed from the equation entirely. Don't give the money to them in the form of taxes. Let individuals and companies keep their money, and provide tax incentives to direct funding in a different manner.

This is a fundamental disagreement between fiscal conservatives, and liberals who want bigger government.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from Ricter:

So in theory the rates are quite high now?

You should try out for a pro dodge ball team. You'd be a natural.

 

[Max E.]

Yeah so if we were to raise taxes on "the rich" by 5% and raise capital gains taxes, it would mean the government is taking in another 80 billion per year, which is the equivalent to pissing in the wind when we are running 1.5 trillion dolar deficits. The fact is it would do nothing, and Obama is out there selling it as if the whole reason the economy is struggling is because "the rich" dont pay their fair share. It is complete and utter horseshit, and Obama is a scumbag for pushing for trying to divide America simply for his own re-election.

Quote from Tsing Tao:


But we all know this is horseshit, as the money would just be taken to fund an increasingly bloated, monstrosity of government that has never been efficient at anything except killing (people and business).

 

[Ricter]

Quote from Lucrum:

You should try out for a pro dodge ball team. You'd be a natural.

And you should try out for a seat on a pro peanut gallery.

 

[Trader666]

What else can Obama run on other than class warfare and envy? He certainly can't run on his record.

Quote from Max E. Pad:

...Obama is out there selling it as if the reason the economy is struggling is because "the rich" dont pay their fair share. It is complete and utter horseshit, and Obama is a scumbag for pushing this agenda.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from Ricter:

And you should try out for a seat on a pro peanut gallery.

An odd comment, coming from a guy who pays no US taxes yet wants to tax and spend everyone else money. Not to mention you don't trade and spend your time on a trading web site. Wouldn't that make YOU the peanut gallery?

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from Max E. Pad:

Yeah so if we were to raise taxes on "the rich" by 5% and raise capital gains taxes, it would mean the government is taking in another 80 billion per year, which is the equivalent to pissing in the wind when we are running 1.5 trillion dolar deficits. The fact is it would do nothing, and Obama is out there selling it as if the whole reason the economy is struggling is because "the rich" dont pay their fair share. It is complete and utter horseshit, and Obama is a scumbag for pushing for trying to divide America simply for his own re-election.

I am in complete agreement with everything you have said. If he were truly serious about getting that 80 billion to work, he would offer offer tax incentives in that amount to drive investment to where he wanted it to go, bypassing the inefficiency of the government completely.

 

[Ricter]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

I would argue that it will never be able to be done. Ever. ROI will just be fudged (as almost all statistics that come out of government are) to serve a purpose or benefit a specific interest group. The government will never be able to properly channel OR regulate any such program. This is why I (and many like me) believe the government must be removed from the equation entirely. Don't give the money to them in the form of taxes. Let individuals and companies keep their money, and provide tax incentives to direct funding in a different manner.

This is a fundamental disagreement between fiscal conservatives, and liberals who want bigger government.

I don't think liberals want bigger government, per se, but rather effective government.

Anyway, I do believe that the government can speculate, fund research, and get the occasional big payoff--for society. I'm definitely more optimistic than you are in that regard, though not 100% by any means. Which reminds me, I have a big essay to share with all the pessimists 'round here...