Let's see how socialized medicine is doing -- Oh, you have to self-fund your surgery

[jem]

1. yeah private sort of... it is rigged via govt regulation against the pubic.

2. Now... regarding outcomes... my wife works with babies and kids in NICUs.

Many countries do not save babies if they under a certain weight or ages... plus we get sick babies from other countries...

Our care is the most advance care in the world...and it works.
We can save 22 and 23 weekers..... normal gestation is what 40 weeks. Most countries would even consider trying to save them when they are more than a few weeks early. Which of course improves those countries stats.

(I note... that the less mature babies are the probability of a worse outcome goes up.)

I would if you dig into those other stats... you find the same issues frequently.

 

[piezoe]

Let's see how socialized medicine is doing -- Oh, you have to self-fund your surgery to avoid death.

So working out just as planned apparently.

Demand for expensive 'self-funded heart operations surges' as NHS waiting lists grow
The NHS waiting list in England has ballooned to 5.3 million, including nearly 4,000 patients who have been waiting for two years, and it's leading people to pay for their own surgery, it has been reported
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/demand-expensive-self-funded-heart-24665822

More patients are opting to pay for expensive life-saving surgery because of crippling NHS waiting lists, it has been reported.

So-called "self funded operations" have risen since the beginning of the pandemic, according to private providers.

And some patients faced with lengthy waiting lists say they have to pay for heart operations that can cost as much as £20,000.

The NHS waiting list in England has ballooned to 5.3 million, including nearly 4,000 patients who have been waiting for two years.

Health Secretary Sajid Javid revealed that when he took the job in June, officials warned him the backlog could grow to 13 million.

The Mail reports that charities say increasing numbers of patients who have been waiting for months are now choosing to go private "as a last resort", while some are considering taking out loans.

Britain’s largest private hospital group, HCA, said there had been an increase in "higher acuity care" since the beginning of the Covid outbreak, including a 20 per cent increase in "self-funded cardiothoracic inpatient procedures’.

This includes operations on the heart and chest such as heart bypass operations.

The group also reported a 30 per cent increase in self-funded neuroscience procedures, like those carried out on the spinal cord and brain.

According to Spire Healthcare, the UK’s second largest private provider, the number of enquiries from self-pay patients was up by 29 per cent from March 2020 to March this year.

Urology, which covers treatment of the prostate, bladder and kidneys, and gastroenterology – the stomach and digestive system, were said to have seen the biggest demand.

Healthcare sources told the publication that patients were also increasingly willing to pay for cancer care.

Liz Heath, a consultant and author for the LaingBuisson market intelligence service, was reported to have said its research showed that NHS delays were the biggest driver for patients deciding to pay for their treatment.

She said: "There is definitely a relationship between NHS waiting times – not just for surgery, for diagnostic tests – and people seeking to self-fund.

"People are making their own decisions around their quality of life and their certainty of treatment. The uncertainty is difficult."

It comes after former health secretary Jeremy Hunt told the Sunday Times the delays were 'incredibly scary' and said pressure to cut waiting times could lead to corners being cut and patients at risk.

He said: “My biggest fear is that we will end up with such huge pressure to reduce waiting lists that we will lose the focus on safety and quality."

Wow!!! only max of 20,000 Pounds (~28,000 $; less than a new car) compared to $123,000 for ave cost of coronary bypass surgery in the U.S. in 2018!!! (That's ~$142,000, inflation adjusted to 2021!) "Bring on single payer", I say. It can't happen soon enough! I tried to get an appointment with a dermatologist three weeks ago, was told the earliest he could see me would be mid September. Hope there is no Melanoma brewing! In the meantime, I may have to self-fund my trip to Canada to see a dermatologist.

 

[Mercor]

Our health care rankings are pretty good considering the condition of the citizens
No NHS system could do better if their population was as fat as ours
Globally, 39% of adults are overweight and 13% are obese, USA is 70%

 

[piezoe]

If only there was a system where you could pay your private insurance and quickly get surgeries done in world-class medical facilities.

Did you have France in mind?

 

[piezoe]

A for-profit health care system cannot ever work. Period.

It's so easy, a caveman can figure it out.

I figured it out years ago, and I'm not even a caveman. Capitalism can never succeed in a market where both the buyer and seller are not free to walk!

 

[piezoe]

The NHS has been under continued attack by the UK Tory conservatives who want it broken up and sold in pieces for personal profit.

They have been in power continuously since May 2010. Because its very popular they have to use some stealth but over a decade of rot and its crumbling.

The common tactic of "conservatives" both in the U.K. and in the U.S., if they can't get their way in one fell swoop (or one swell foop!) is to ruin anything they don't like bit by bit. Then they'll say, "see, I told you it wouldn't work". They are taking that approach to social security. They repeatedly failed to privatize it by handing it over to Wall Street, so now they are trying to slowly strangle it by refusing to vote, year after year, for the Trustee's recommended increases in contribution rates. Eventually they will say , "see I told you it would go broke! The only way to make it succeed is to privatize it." Now they are using the piecemeal destruction approach on Obama care, which they inflicted a near mortal wound on when they refused, with help from Democrat Baucus, the hero of the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries, to allow the "Public Option" to be included. Then the went to Court to give states the right to opt out of Medicaid expansion, leaving millions making too little to qualify for premium subsidies and too much to qualify for medicaid. Then they refused to enforce the insurance mandate. They'll make sure that no Democrat initiative can succeed to its fullest extent, then they'll say, "See I told you it would never work."

 

[smallfil]

Yeah, let us see how Obamacare results in better care for everyone? It is a fallacy. People have to pay up and the bills will go higher. Doctors are retiring in droves, refusing the paltry Medicare reimbursements they are getting, not even enough to cover their overhead. A lot of doctors now work for HMOs and PPOs and get paid a salary so that, they do not deal with the overhead anymore. Of course, they see maybe, 200 patients a day at 10 minutes each patient. My doctor used to see me for an appointment for atleast, 20 minutes before Obamacare, now maybe, 5 minutes tops. I will try to take care of myself because the medical bureaucracy will kill you at some point. You can only ration medical services to some point. Add to that disinformation and lies of the CDC and extreme liberal media hacks. What could go wrong?

 

[Cuddles]

The common tactic of "conservatives" both in the U.K. and in the U.S., if they can't get their way in one fell swoop (or one swell foop!) is to ruin anything they don't like bit by bit. Then they'll say, "see, I told you it wouldn't work". They are taking that approach to social security. They repeatedly failed to privatize it by handing it over to Wall Street, so now they are trying to slowly strangle it by refusing to vote, year after year, for the Trustee's recommended increases in contribution rates. Eventually they will say , "see I told you it would go broke! The only way to make it succeed is to privatize it." Now they are using the piecemeal destruction approach on Obama care, which they inflicted a near mortal wound on when they refused, with help from Democrat Baucus, the hero of the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries, to allow the "Public Option" to be included. Then the went to Court to give states the right to opt out of Medicaid expansion, leaving millions making too little to qualify for premium subsidies and too much to qualify for medicaid. Then they refused to enforce the insurance mandate. They'll make sure that no Democrat initiative can succeed to its fullest extent, then they'll say, "See I told you it would never work."

 

[piezoe]

Open most undergraduate texts in Economics and you can read about "Regulatory Capture." The U.S. System of Medical Care is the poster child for "Regulatory Capture." There can be no better example of its pernicious effects.

 

[Ricter]

The common tactic of "conservatives" both in the U.K. and in the U.S., if they can't get their way in one fell swoop (or one swell foop!) is to ruin anything they don't like bit by bit. Then they'll say, "see, I told you it wouldn't work". They are taking that approach to social security. They repeatedly failed to privatize it by handing it over to Wall Street, so now they are trying to slowly strangle it by refusing to vote, year after year, for the Trustee's recommended increases in contribution rates. Eventually they will say , "see I told you it would go broke! The only way to make it succeed is to privatize it." Now they are using the piecemeal destruction approach on Obama care, which they inflicted a near mortal wound on when they refused, with help from Democrat Baucus, the hero of the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries, to allow the "Public Option" to be included. Then the went to Court to give states the right to opt out of Medicaid expansion, leaving millions making too little to qualify for premium subsidies and too much to qualify for medicaid. Then they refused to enforce the insurance mandate. They'll make sure that no Democrat initiative can succeed to its fullest extent, then they'll say, "See I told you it would never work."

Imo this is the tactic of the plutocrats, not conservatives, though we know plutocrats mainly use the republican party to practice their greed.