Let's get real about prison abuse

General Taguba was simply investigating a low-level military police battalion. The Abu Ghraib Prison was run by an entirely different military group . . . Military Intelligence.

As a result, I would tend to agree with you that these orders came down from the top, people like General Sanchez himself. That being said, you have to understand that General Taguba's investigation was only the beginning and did not even touch upon the military brass up in Military Intelligence. From what I understand, there are a total of 6 different investigations going on. If you think that General Taguba's little speech today was "ass-covering", you have no idea what's about to hit the fan next!

As for General Antonio Taguba, you really should refrain from calling the 2nd highest Filipino in military command, and a much decorated 6-year Korean War veteran a "Pentagon paper-pusher".

You need to get your facts straight, before getting consumed by the emotion of the issue and calling good military veterans "paper-pushes". It makes you look like an idiot.

As for photos of "abuse" at Abu Ghraib prison . . . it's all about perception my friend. And perception is what is inflaming the Arab world right now. Just ask the parents of Nick Berg. So as much as you wish that Rummy and Bush would stand-up and stop being so damn PC, you fail to see the much bigger picture.

http://www.asianweek.com/080197/news.html
 
Quote from waggie945:

Yes, I am going to continue to state that Iraq was not an "imminent" threat to the United States of America. Please show me where they were able to threaten the security of the United States of America with an immediate threat?

Gee, it sure as hell wasn't the Iraqi Air Force now was it? They didn't even get one freaking plane off the ground!

Or how about that big bad Iraqi Navy complete with nuclear powered subs and ballistic missiles. Yeah, right! The vaunted "Red Guard" and use of chemical weapons? Hardly.

Given your absurd logic, why haven't we invaded North Korea by now? Hell, they have proven nuclear capability! Shouldn't we be invading North Korea, making sure that there is a "regime" change and helping to turn that country into a Democracy too?

I don't know about you, but I really have a problem with seeing $200 billion of our tax dollars going towards a country that has no freaking chance of becoming a democracy. I also have a problem with young American soldiers dying in a land that none of us have cultural ties with, let alone any of us will be visiting anytime soon for a vacation. Get real TM. Try putting down the Dumya pom-poms long enough to actually see what is going on in the World.

Like Colin Powell said with regards to Iraq and the Pottery Barn policy: "You break it . . . you own it, and own it you will with all of the expectations of 25 million people that go with that."

Iraq a threat to the United States?
Keep dreaming . . .

Iraq becoming a Democracy?
Keep dreaming . . .

So much for Mission Accomplished!
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" Al Queda beheaded and American on video in Iraq".......this CAN;T BE!!! THERE IS NO LINK WITH AL QUEDA IN IRAQ IS THERE???????

" Suicide Bombers, similar to the methods used against israel, have been killing Americans and Iraqi civilians"

NO WAY!!!! THERE IS NO TERRORIST THREAT IN IRAQ! NONE! THIS IS ALL JUST COINCIDENCE ISN'T IT????

:confused:
 
Quote from TM_Direct:

" Al Queda beheaded and American on video in Iraq".......this CAN;T BE!!! THERE IS NO LINK WITH AL QUEDA IN IRAQ IS THERE???????

" Suicide Bombers, similar to the methods used against israel, have been killing Americans and Iraqi civilians"

NO WAY!!!! THERE IS NO TERRORIST THREAT IN IRAQ! NONE! THIS IS ALL JUST COINCIDENCE ISN'T IT????

:confused:
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you mean I gotta be ready to see American Troops in Spain?
 
Quote from TL Trader:

Actually I'm pretty sure an american female POW was raped by the Iraqi's during the first gulf war. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Lynch also assaulted?
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Consider yourself corrected. Unless by "assualted" you mean "taken to hospital".

The problem here surely, is that lingering issue that we were meant to be the good guys. Unfortunately when you invade a war to "give people freedom" you have to conform to higher standards than you expect of your enemy. Anyone read 1984?
 
This isn't "hazing" is it? From The Times:

This weekend Kelly Tilford, the British woman who raised the alarm about Bartlam’s film, described the scenes she saw in four photographs developed last May. “The first one was this Iraqi who was naked and being held up in this big net,” said Tilford, 23, of Tamworth, Staffordshire. “You could see what I guessed were British servicemen standing around.

“Then there were two shots of Iraqi men performing oral sex on each other. The man who was performing the sex act looked totally disgusted. I think that in at least one of the photos there were British soldiers in the background.

“The final shot was of two Iraqi men having intercourse. You could tell they were being forced to do it. Again I think there were British servicemen in this shot.”
 
Excuse me, but when did Iraq become a terrorist threat to the United States . . . before we invaded their country, or AFTER we invaded their country when all of the muslim extremists and insurgents arrived from Syria and Saudi Arabia to fuck with our trips and contractors?

Also, please feel free to tell all of us what the "connection" was between the "911 Hijackers" and IRAQ, especially since 16 of the 19 terrorist hijackers were Saudi Nationals.

You are without a doubt, one of the biggest morons on ET.
 
Would it surprise you to learn that 31,000 "detainees" were released, because the military deemed them innocent and that they just happened to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time?

That is why we have the Geneva Convention.
Plain and simple.
 
Quote from waggie945:

Excuse me, but when did Iraq become a terrorist threat to the United States . . . before we invaded their country, or AFTER we invaded their country when all of the muslim extremists and insurgents arrived from Syria and Saudi Arabia to fuck with our trips and contractors?

Also, please feel free to tell all of us what the "connection" was between the "911 Hijackers" and IRAQ, especially since 16 of the 19 terrorist hijackers were Saudi Nationals.

You are without a doubt, one of the biggest morons on ET.
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Well said!:cool:
 
waggie,

I saw on Nightline last night that even some Pentagon brass think Gen. Taguba overreacted and overdramatized his investigation. That is no doubt why they sent a Pentagon civilian to testify with him yesterday. It was pretty interesting, they were sitting next to each other and disagreeing about who was in charge of the prison. That doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

I'll wait for the other investigations, but the way thi sis playing out now, the military is going with the "few bad apples" spin. I'll be amazed frankly if anyone above the rank of sergeant is charged with anything, other than maybe Gen. Karpinski who is a retired reservist.
 
Quote from waggie945:

Would it surprise you to learn that 31,000 "detainees" were released, because the military deemed them innocent and that they just happened to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time?

That is why we have the Geneva Convention.
Plain and simple.
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Exactly the point!

AAAinthebeltway, man what has happened to you? Have you folks all gone mad? :confused: I'm assuming you are serious but I hope yer not:p

few facts, and a question to you and the rest:

By The Associated Press
Major developments about Iraq (news - web sites) on Monday:
_ An international Red Cross report said coalition intelligence officers estimated that 70-90 percent of Iraqi detainees were arrested by mistake, and that Red Cross observers saw U.S. officers mistreating Abu Ghraib prisoners by keeping them naked in dark, empty cells.

complete ICRC report here: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/S... N. Africa/Iraq conflict/Red Cross report.pdf

for every ten rounded up 7 to 9 are innocent. :( Is this what our values stand for???. Is this what we try to convey down there?

Question:
Are you convicting them just because, we have the weapons and the power to round them up? What happened to due process. ??:confused: :confused: F^%k man!!!! Is everyone presumed guilty and tortured/killed on the spot? Says who?
How would you like police looking for a "bad guy" next block, but they round you up and torture you/kill you, and you are innocent?:confused: This is madness!!!!

I keep seeing a shitload of misdirected rage on your part and others clouded by strict partisanship......... we are heading down the slippery slope fast:(
 
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