Let's face it, the protocol has major flaws

Quote from newguy05:


PS pekelo you not getting it, there is nothing wrong with design, it's p2p open source network, majority wins.

Dude, give it up. First you have just explained how the system could be interrupted in a rather cheap way, and then you are saying there is nothing wrong with the design. If a government can screw it up for only 40 million bucks, there are lots of things wrong with the design..

Also:

"It's so important that people realize that we can only get rough guesses at how much hashing power any one pool actually has; ghash.io could just as easily point all their hashing power to p2pool and we'd be thinking everything is hunky dory even though we'd still be at risk."
 
Quote from Hoi:

We are talking the same thing, but I don't agree with your "too easy and too low calculations".
1) It's proves to be much harder to produce very high tech 20nm hardware in a very short timespan (especially if this should be under the radar). There are only a few manufactories in the world, fully booked for the whole year. It will cost much more than your figure.

I disagree, it really is not, all those asic need to do is solve sha-256. We are talking about a few guys with very limited resource in the basement here. If goldman sachs were to do it for example, they will drop $10mill in r & d and easily get one of the many professional firms to get it done and fast track with tsmc foundry and foxconn-type assembly. Look how many iphones/ipads get pumped out a day, this is just a drop in the bucket.

2) The network itself grows with about 25% per 10 days. So it will be exponentially hard to create such an huge datacenter in time. As well as this datacenter should grow as well with 25% per 10 days to sustain the attack. Let alone the power and heat issues.

Those banks already have multiple data centers, all those asic will just be blade rackmounts. The infrastructure setup is really not that difficult, again you are only thinking mom & pop setups, you need to think how a large company with access to hundreds of billions in resources & funds will attack this. It's a walk in the park.

i agree it gets more difficult as time goes by that's why i am saying we need to grow slow and steady until the network becomes too difficult to attack.

3) As I wrote already: the Bitcoin-network will not die without a struggle. It's programmable and will quickly be patched to defend against the evil-entity.

You cannot patch and defend if within a week another 36K TH came online for example, unless you track down their datacenter and physically shut it down.

It will be too late by the time the "good guys" catch on.


Yes, we together can see "obvious reasons" as we both know and understand what Bitcoin will bring us. But that's NOT the case on Wallstreet at all... they still ignore and laugh at us....it will take years before they understand what hit them, and by then there's no way they could perform a 51% attack anymore, by just a few $100million.

Yes they are ignoring now because there is no impact to their bottomline, but if bitcoin becomes too popular and actually getting used as a currency, you bet they will take notice and try to shut it down, as by design, there is no way for them to profit on the transactions otherwise as an exchange. Hopefully by then the network is too big.
 
Quote from newguy05:

I disagree, it really is not, all those asic need to do is solve sha-256. We are talking about a few guys with very limited resource in the basement here. If goldman sachs were to do it for example, they will drop $10mill in r & d and easily get one of the many professional firms to get it done and fast track with tsmc foundry and foxconn-type assembly. Look how many iphones/ipads get pumped out a day, this is just a drop in the bucket.



Those banks already have multiple data centers, all those asic will just be blade rackmounts. The infrastructure setup is really not that difficult, again you are only thinking mom & pop setups, you need to think how a large company with access to hundreds of billions in resources & funds will attack this. It's a walk in the park.

i agree it gets more difficult as time goes by that's why i am saying we need to grow slow and steady until the network becomes too difficult to attack.



You cannot patch and defend if within a week another 36K TH came online for example, unless you track down their datacenter and physically shut it down.

It will be too late by the time the "good guys" catch on.




Yes they are ignoring now because there is no impact to their bottomline, but if bitcoin becomes too popular and actually getting used as a currency, you bet they will take notice and try to shut it down, as by design, there is no way for them to profit on the transactions otherwise as an exchange. Hopefully by then the network is too big.

pfff ..... we will see who is right... (put some skin in the game and go short, I will be on the other side).
 
Quote from Hoi:

pfff ..... we will see who is right... (put some skin in the game and go short, I will be on the other side).

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Quote from Hoi:

pfff ..... we will see who is right... (put some skin in the game and go short, I will be on the other side).

i dont think you want anyone to have the ability to short btc at this point, or things can really get out of hand. I am happy there is no way to securely short bitcoins currently without major counterparty risk. I have supported bitcoin since day 1 before anyone here even know what it is, just because i raise concerns doesnt mean i want it to die.

Also not saying someone will execute this type of network attack, my point is it can be done by a large firm relatively easily right now due to the low network difficulty.


Quote from Pekelo:

Dude, give it up. First you have just explained how the system could be interrupted in a rather cheap way, and then you are saying there is nothing wrong with the design. If a government can screw it up for only 40 million bucks, there are lots of things wrong with the design..

Also:

"It's so important that people realize that we can only get rough guesses at how much hashing power any one pool actually has; ghash.io could just as easily point all their hashing power to p2pool and we'd be thinking everything is hunky dory even though we'd still be at risk."

You need to understand how bitcoin actually works, you also need to understand what "major flaws in the protocol" means - which implies design fundamental error.

The protocol is working exactly as expected by design, and everyone knows it since day 1.

There is nothing more to say on this.
 
Quote from newguy05:

You need to understand

that you don't have any good argument. I understand it just swell.... :)

Coiners wouldn't be freaking out if it wasn't a problem. If it is not, why don't we just let a group gain 50+% share and see what happens...
 
I think all pekelo's concerns which have great reasoning would be priced Into bitcoin at this moment and it would not be at the price it is at. The evil doers as you say would nip this in the butt now rather than letting it get more steam. I would think.
 
Quote from ElCubano:

I think all pekelo's concerns which have great reasoning would be priced Into bitcoin at this moment and it would not be at the price it is at. The evil doers as you say would nip this in the butt now rather than letting it get more steam. I would think.

Central banks and those behind them are the only concern. From their perspective, Bitcoin is a challenge to their slavery system.

However, the people working at the establishments are so angry with the central banking slavery system that they want to see change.
 
I think no matter what your medium of exchange, it all has flaws. Fiat can be debased, gold can be injected with tungsten, bitcoin can be hacked...if you are always looking for worst case scenario, you can probably always find one no matter what. Doesnt mean its going to happen. You measure the risk/reward, see if it's worth it, and act accordingly. Gold & fiat have the advantage of having a longer track record than bitcoin, which is why the risk reward with those investments is near nothing.

In my opinion, bitcoin has a serious, potential lifechanging reward for anyone who makes a small investment now of even maybe only $1k bucks. (most of you have probably dropped that in a day, trading)

Others believe the cake is a lie.
 
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