One good thing has come from the WTC disaster. It got me out of the market. I have been trading for about a year and a half and am down about 10 grand. I chalk it up to tuition and have no regrets. I wish there was some way to convince new traders how hard it is to make it but there's not. Like most other things in life, you have to learn the hard way. I quit a couple of times before but always got right back in. This time it is different. I really think I've learned the lesson. Oh I'll be getting back in. I want to trade more than anything else in this life, but this time when I get back in it will be different. The reason I knew I should not be in the market is that throughout this year and a half I have never had a consistent approach to the markets. I have tried most of the different styles but never long enough to learn the nuances. I knew I was being dumb but kept on anyhow. After the disaster I closed my account because I was worried about a financial collapse. I had intended to get back in again but in the meantime I started papertrading some things I want to try. A couple of weeks went by and I was still losing money on paper. I thought, I'll wait till I have a few days of profit on paper before I get back in. Didn't happen. I am still not profitable even on paper and it has finally made me realize how stupid it is to be risking money without having some sort of system that is at least profitable on paper. Some of you are probably laughing at someone who can't even make profit on paper but the reason is that I have a pretty realistic idea of how much slippage I can expect and when I factor that in, there's no edge. Not yet. I am confident I will find something that works but in the meantime, my moneys in the bank drawing interest instead of shrinking. This is a great board and I certainly empathize with a lot of you new traders. Maybe this post will help someone to pull out ant regroup like I did.
Lessons
- Thread starter tracker
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Tracker,
Lay out in detail your trading style/s entry and exit criteria... this will let members of the board contructively criticise it. Such a process of constructive criticism may prove not only educational for yourself, but for ALL Elitetrader members.
Candle
Lay out in detail your trading style/s entry and exit criteria... this will let members of the board contructively criticise it. Such a process of constructive criticism may prove not only educational for yourself, but for ALL Elitetrader members.
Candle
Tracker,
Do you know what Vincent Van Gogh always said :
"The fishermen know the sea is dangerous and the storm is terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore... "
Get that down through your head: the WTC disaster or the market, is not responsible to what happened to you and your money ! You are the only one that should plead GUILTY !
My advise : do not give up now ! It would be like a sacrifice of your brains, on the altar of panic !!!
Take my advise and start all over again :
- first make a diagnostic ( analyze your trading journal, if you have one ) of your trading capabilities, from all points of view : order routing, strategies ( are they healthy ? ), money management ( do you keep your stops ? ), entries and exits AND ... above all the psychology support !!!
- second, get some help from professional traders specialized
in trading psychology, there are many out there. I am not one
of them, I am only an MD. If you don't know them, just say it ...
- and finally, you have us, the "seniors ", you can count on us !!!
Do not forget Van Gogh, knew what he was talking about !
He was cute, he forgot to mention that the fishermen, were professionals, having every day's experience's school, and above all a courage and a "know how" that the most of nowadays' traders do not even dream of ...
Have a nice week,
MD-doc
Do you know what Vincent Van Gogh always said :
"The fishermen know the sea is dangerous and the storm is terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore... "
Get that down through your head: the WTC disaster or the market, is not responsible to what happened to you and your money ! You are the only one that should plead GUILTY !
My advise : do not give up now ! It would be like a sacrifice of your brains, on the altar of panic !!!
Take my advise and start all over again :
- first make a diagnostic ( analyze your trading journal, if you have one ) of your trading capabilities, from all points of view : order routing, strategies ( are they healthy ? ), money management ( do you keep your stops ? ), entries and exits AND ... above all the psychology support !!!
- second, get some help from professional traders specialized
in trading psychology, there are many out there. I am not one
of them, I am only an MD. If you don't know them, just say it ...
- and finally, you have us, the "seniors ", you can count on us !!!
Do not forget Van Gogh, knew what he was talking about !
He was cute, he forgot to mention that the fishermen, were professionals, having every day's experience's school, and above all a courage and a "know how" that the most of nowadays' traders do not even dream of ...
Have a nice week,
MD-doc
Candle
Thanks but no thanks. I mean absolutely no disrespect but I doubt seriously that anybody here can help me. I have been reading this forum for quite awhile and so far nobody has said anything I haven't read before. There are so many people doing the same things that the edge has been reduced to the point of no return. I am looking for a new angle. If any of you have something new you want to share, please pm me,but then, why would you?
Thanks but no thanks. I mean absolutely no disrespect but I doubt seriously that anybody here can help me. I have been reading this forum for quite awhile and so far nobody has said anything I haven't read before. There are so many people doing the same things that the edge has been reduced to the point of no return. I am looking for a new angle. If any of you have something new you want to share, please pm me,but then, why would you?
Tracker,
I am slightly confused... you state that you seriously doubt that anyone can help you and then you finish off by asking for people to help you :eek:
Anyway, best of luck in becoming a successful trader.
Candle
tracker..
i also mean no disrespect but im going to tell you like it is.. hope you dont mind..
you came to this board moaning about how hard things are and your strategy doesnt work etc etc..
candletrader, -who seems to be a fine trader btw- offers to take a look at your strategy and offer suggestions and advice..
then you turn him/her down because you think old strategies dont work and no one would teach you a new one..
seriously man, do you really want help or were you just hoping to find some people to lay down in the gutter with you and cry about how unfair life as a trader is.. i seriously doubt your strategy is the problem anyway.. its your attitude man.. get a grip.. i think it was Thomas Edison who said that "the only genius is being able to go from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm".. my fear is not losing, but losing the will to try again..
-qwik
i also mean no disrespect but im going to tell you like it is.. hope you dont mind..
you came to this board moaning about how hard things are and your strategy doesnt work etc etc..
candletrader, -who seems to be a fine trader btw- offers to take a look at your strategy and offer suggestions and advice..
then you turn him/her down because you think old strategies dont work and no one would teach you a new one..
seriously man, do you really want help or were you just hoping to find some people to lay down in the gutter with you and cry about how unfair life as a trader is.. i seriously doubt your strategy is the problem anyway.. its your attitude man.. get a grip.. i think it was Thomas Edison who said that "the only genius is being able to go from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm".. my fear is not losing, but losing the will to try again..
-qwik
"the only genius is being able to go from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm".. my fear is not losing, but losing the will to try again..
I agree 100%. This business is a wild rollercoaster ride in the beginning stages. I believe the key to surviving is to remain passionate about trading. The passion to keep learning despite minor failures is what separates those who surivive and eventually succeed in this business from those who don't.
Once the passion and will to try again is gone, so is the spirit.
I agree 100%. This business is a wild rollercoaster ride in the beginning stages. I believe the key to surviving is to remain passionate about trading. The passion to keep learning despite minor failures is what separates those who surivive and eventually succeed in this business from those who don't.
Once the passion and will to try again is gone, so is the spirit.
You say your giving up but you won't. You will always have the "what if's" pop in your head; if not in 6 months, a couple years down the road. So assuming that, just stay on the sidelines and try out a longer term system. There is a world of difference between day trading and swing type trades. Hardly any pressure (if done correctly), and far fewer fakeouts. If you can't make money longer term, then definately hang it up, but I'm sure you can.
I've hung it up several times but have always came back. Now I regret not just sticking to it back from the beginning. What worked for me in general was:
1) getting rid of all indicators
2) Looking at many different time periods on charts from weekly down to intraday and noticing exploitable situations. If you do this you'll see many similarities between minute charts and weekly. The only difference is the size of the moves: with hourly bars you can make a point, and with weekly you can make 10 points. Somewhere in between is the optimal risk/reward/inventory-turn-over of assets place to design your system around.
3) Develop a robotic system that is simple that can be tested for a month or two back. Then find stocks that work for that system, and follow daily, documenting the dollar and percentage return each day and month on paper. (This will give you confidence in the system when trading for real).
4) When you get a profitable system, trade with real money following the system religously and comparing actual results to theoretical results each day and notice why their was discrepancies, then adjust.
5) Risk a small percentage per trade (1/2-2%). I do 3-10 positions at once, each with 1/2% risk. It really makes it easy to follow rules with such a small risk per position. And you almost always have winners offsetting losers, so taking losses is easier. Your equity curve might not surge 15% in one day, but neither will you lose much either, and a winning system will bring consistent non-volatile profits.
I guarantee with some sweat you can make it work. Good luck.
I've hung it up several times but have always came back. Now I regret not just sticking to it back from the beginning. What worked for me in general was:
1) getting rid of all indicators
2) Looking at many different time periods on charts from weekly down to intraday and noticing exploitable situations. If you do this you'll see many similarities between minute charts and weekly. The only difference is the size of the moves: with hourly bars you can make a point, and with weekly you can make 10 points. Somewhere in between is the optimal risk/reward/inventory-turn-over of assets place to design your system around.
3) Develop a robotic system that is simple that can be tested for a month or two back. Then find stocks that work for that system, and follow daily, documenting the dollar and percentage return each day and month on paper. (This will give you confidence in the system when trading for real).
4) When you get a profitable system, trade with real money following the system religously and comparing actual results to theoretical results each day and notice why their was discrepancies, then adjust.
5) Risk a small percentage per trade (1/2-2%). I do 3-10 positions at once, each with 1/2% risk. It really makes it easy to follow rules with such a small risk per position. And you almost always have winners offsetting losers, so taking losses is easier. Your equity curve might not surge 15% in one day, but neither will you lose much either, and a winning system will bring consistent non-volatile profits.
I guarantee with some sweat you can make it work. Good luck.
"the only genius is being able to go from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm"..
Man I think this is the best advice, proverb call it whatever way you want to you can give someone.
By the way, I think Tracker (and everyone for that matter) should read Reminessences of Jesse Livemore (I got it in E format so mail me Ill reply and attach it). Old stuff, begginnings of NYSE but really openes eyes.
Just my ES tick
Man I think this is the best advice, proverb call it whatever way you want to you can give someone.
By the way, I think Tracker (and everyone for that matter) should read Reminessences of Jesse Livemore (I got it in E format so mail me Ill reply and attach it). Old stuff, begginnings of NYSE but really openes eyes.
Just my ES tick
