Lessons from a failed trader

[themickey]

.....As a successful day trader your one-week returns can match the yearly returns of a value investor. Of course, most don't achieve that, just like most people are fairly average in most other areas......

That is 50x which equals 4900%
I don't think a day trader can achieve that.
Day traders don't have more intelligence than investors because they are day traders.
Clicking button all day doesn't equal more savvy, certainly not 4900%.

 

[Scataphagos]

most people who discovered any type of investing in the middle of a bull run would feel like they found the IT factor.

Ditto!

The wind has been at the market's back... Fed printing.

 

[Laissez Faire]

That is 50x which equals 4900%
I don't think a day trader can achieve that.

I was up 36.2 % net last week day trading only the RTH Open on most days, i.e., 90-120 minutes and I'm a mediocre day trader.

Am I able to do that consistently? Not yet. Maybe never. We'll see.

But there's no reason anyone would or should pursue day trading unless they can get a very, very high return on their capital/time invested. If not, you should swing trade or invest.

Day traders don't have more intelligence than investors because they are day traders.
Clicking button all day doesn't equal more savvy, certainly not 4900%.

Maybe not.

But the work and experience/screentime to assemble a consistently successful day trading strategy far, far exceeds that of getting started with a basic investment strategy.

I have a friend who's done very well investing starting 10 years ago. He never invented any strategies himself and was ready to go after reading a few books. Just basic value investing following Buffet and similar gurus. He's done very, very well in these last 10 years, but he also had about $150K to get started.

EDIT: I corrected my weekly return. It was 36.2 % net. Not > 40 %. 4/5 winning days. Not really concernced with daily or weekly or yearly return anyhow. Just growing my capital and eventually my size (slowly).

 

[padutrader]

Hold on @padutrader either your father bought it or you did. Both cannot be true.

my father died in 1996...he willed it to me
he bought i sold.
now fuck off

 

[themickey]

I was up over 40 % net last week day trading only the RTH Open on most days, i.e., 90-120 minutes and I'm a mediocre day trader.

Am I able to do that consistently? Not yet. Maybe never. We'll see.

But there's no reason anyone would or should pursue day trading unless they can get a very, very high return on their capital/time invested. If not, you should swing trade or invest.



Maybe not.

But the work and experience/screentime to assemble a consistently successful day trading strategy far, far exceeds that of getting started with a basic investment strategy.

I have a friend who's done very well investing starting 10 years ago. He never invented any strategies himself and was ready to go after reading a few books. Just basic value investing following Buffet and similar gurus. He's done very, very well in these last 10 years, but he also had about $150K to get started.

Yes but 40% of what?
Day traders can't trade size from my understanding, not like a longer term trader.
As well day traders have high labor costs.
The first week of January, my net portfolio return was 6.25%, but no one but me knows my portfolio value.
(Hint: I'm running about +50 diverse positions simultaneously then and currently)

 

[sef88]

Yes but 40% of what?
Day traders can't trade size from my understanding, not like a longer term trader.
As well day traders have high labor costs.
The first week of January, my net portfolio return was 6.25%, but no one but me knows my portfolio value.
(Hint: I'm running about +50 positions then and currently)

Yes agree. 40% returns on net worth would be impressive. 40% of a tiny proportion of net worth is not.

Though 40% returns even yearly for a sustained period of time (talking about at least a decade) outside of Ren Tech is unheard of. Maybe there are really geniuses around? I don't know.

 

[Laissez Faire]

Yes but 40% of what?
Day traders can't trade size from my understanding, not like a longer term trader.
As well day traders have high labor costs.

36.2 % on my total account balance.

If you trade in a liquid market (ES) and use mostly limit orders, a day trading strategy is fairly scaleable.

The first week of January, my net portfolio return was 6.25%, but no one but me knows my portfolio value.
(Hint: I'm running about +50 diverse positions simultaneously then and currently)

That's nice.

Though 40% returns even yearly for a sustained period of time (talking about at least a decade) outside of Ren Tech is unheard of. Maybe there are really geniuses around? I don't know.

Did you ever read Market Wizards?

Comparing Ren Tech which manages billions and a retail trader isn't a fair comparison.

But I do agree that the consistency is the hard part. And to be honest, I'm thinking research/development similar to RenTech is needed in order to achieve such results.

 

[sef88]

36.2 % on my total account balance.

If you trade in a liquid market (ES) and use mostly limit orders, a day trading strategy is fairly scaleable.

That's nice.



Did you ever read Market Wizards?

Comparing Ren Tech which manages billions and a retail trader isn't a fair comparison.

But I do agree that the consistency is the hard part. And to be honest, I'm thinking research/development similar to RenTech is needed in order to achieve such results.

I don't think the market wizards achieved 40% annually. Even druckenmiller achieve 30% over a few decades. If you are talking about his latest book, unknown market wizards, I'm not as convinced because many of them blew up their accounts.

And to be honest. Making 40% a year day trading (talking about low risk, high Sharpe performance) manually using charts is really a tall order. Unless you are doing some sort of automated statistical arbitrage.

 

[themickey]

36.2 % on my total account balance.
If you trade in a liquid market (ES) and use mostly limit orders, a day trading strategy is fairly scaleable.....

Impressive, congrats! Nice work.
Scaling up & compounding is do-able when you have confidence.
That's when it really starts working in your favor.

 

[Daal]

I don't think the market wizards achieved 40% annually. Even druckenmiller achieve 30% over a few decades. If you are talking about his latest book, unknown market wizards, I'm not as convinced because many of them blew up their accounts.

And to be honest. Making 40% a year day trading (talking about low risk, high Sharpe performance) manually using charts is really a tall order. Unless you are doing some sort of automated statistical arbitrage.

You dont measure a daytrader return in terms of %, Mike Bellafiore talks about that a lot. You measure it in dollars. Most top daytraders earn over $1M a year. Some earn over $5M