Legality of Healthcare

Quote from PiggyBank:

Unless it is amended to the Constitution, then it IS NOT a right. I don't know what gives u this idea. Health insurance was created by private companies, it is a product, not a right.

Where does this line of thinking end? Perhaps all Americans are entitled to a specific salary each year as well, or how about a house, or a car? We aren't entitled to shit, we are born free and we have to pull our own weight in order for the economy to function. Relying on the govt will cause stagnation eventually, who is going to work if they are better taken care of sitting on their ass?

I am not heartless either, I have no problem with social programs, as long as they DO NOT become entitlements. Calling healthcare a "right" is a flat out lie.
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(Rolls eyes.....His television only gets Fox News. His radio only gets Rush Limbaugh.)
 
Quote from Scataphagos:

BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT! Nothing is (nor can be) a RIGHT that somebody else has to pay for.
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So, "paying the ultimate price" only apply to soldiers, not victims of gun violence?

Is everyone involved in a trial by jury of your peers working pro bono?

How much would it really cost if we actually had to pay for all that free state government that exists because of the 10th amendment?
 
Quote from BSAM:

Rolls eyes.....His television only gets Fox News. His radio only gets Rush Limbaugh.
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Okay, Sparky...

Show us where, exactly, in the Constitution, Bill of Rights (hell, even the Declaration for that matter) that healthcare is a right?
 
Quote from killthesunshine:

What do you say to this..

http://www.businessinsider.com/what...-more-than-other-country-the-uk-spends-2992-1
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This was posted by HelloDollar and illustrates my point of view very well:


The further folly: The government is fighting tooth and nail to RE-INFLATE home prices while bitching about health care costs.

Which option strikes an a rational thinker as more egregious? A 500 square foot apartment renting for $1500 a month or a family health insurance policy costing $1500 a month? One is four crappy walls stacked 40 stories on top of each other-built at a cost of 50 grand, the other is open ended liability that with near certainty will require a six figure or more payout.

Higher insurance costs will theoretically "out bid" other ridiculous, less important expenditures. Perhaps a luxury condo should only cost $89,000, a movie ticket 3 bucks and health premiums 2k a month. ONLY THROUGH CRISIS do markets readjust. Here we have the government de facto saying, expensive housing=good, health care costs higher=bad, soaring teacher salaries=good, soaring medical practitioner salaries=bad. Who is the government to decide? I doubt there's a doctor in the world making Keith Olberman's salary from TARP junkie General Electric yet he's some self ordained compensation czar when it comes to MD's, bankers and insurance companies
 
Quote from killthesunshine:

What do you say to this..

http://www.businessinsider.com/what...-more-than-other-country-the-uk-spends-2992-1
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Excellent article, kill. I'm sending it to all of my contacts. The only problem is:

1. Medicare recipients, Veterens, and the 70% of those employed and getting health insurance paid (tax free) don't care about the FACTS of our current system OR those who are not included in the current system.

2. Conservatives, (most of who already 'got' theirs), don't give a shit about anybody else.

3. A universal, single-payer health care system, while benefitting MOST Americans, would erode the income stream of too many people. This includes insurance company CEO's, sales & marketing staff, back office accounting staffs, and 1000's of mid-level managers whose job is to DENY medical care payments.

4. Most important: representatives getting campaign funds from the various medical special intrest groups would have to seek other funds.

Everybody KNOWS that a universal, single-payer system is the BEST system that there is. That is not what is being debated. Until more people SUFFER from the current system than those people who PROFIT/BENEFIT from the current system, we will see no change.

That day will come: I just hope that Obama doesn't spend ALL of his politcal capital in trying to force it before its time.
 
Quote from jprad:

Okay, Sparky...

Show us where, exactly, in the Constitution, Bill of Rights (hell, even the Declaration for that matter) that healthcare is a right?
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Hey Spanky.....

Do you think that everything is in the Constitution that should be in the Constition? What about term limits? Think that should be there for Senators and Reps? How about abolition of the IRS? Think maybe we need to amend the Constitution to fix that fiasco? Do you think that document, which is nearly 250 years old is exactly applicable to every aspect of today's USA?

WAKE UP SPANKY!!!!!

If we can spend billions in places like Afghanistan and Iraq, then why would you ever be against helping out our own people?????

Do you think it's okay for doctors, drug dealers and hospitals to charge whatever monetary figure they can dream of to suck every dollar they can get from dying Americans? What's up with all that, Spanky?

If you really believe that all Americans are born into, or are existing on an even playing field, I'd say you got to be on something that's illegal. Have a goodun. Enjoy bud.
 
Quote from tomdavis:

Over 200 million people go to the doctor each year, or approximately 60% of the US population.

http://healthcare411.ahrq.gov/transcript.aspx?id=14


There's no question that a single payer system is the best way to keep down costs. But it also results in rationing. I've lived in Canada, Greece and Spain and there's a wait for many procedures. In Canada, there's now an 18 month wait for hip replacement surgeries. If you're in pain, 18 months is a long time and that's why many people pay out of their own pockets and come to the US for the procedure. There's also been a steady decline in R&D spending in most of these countries.

What we need is an honest discussion about healthcare. There's a tradeoff to be made between costs, advances in medical treatments and rationing. If we want to treat the greatest number of people for the lowest costs, a single-payer system is the way to go. But there's a price to be paid for going that route.

I think there are logical arguments on both sides of the issue. It's unfortunate that our politicians won't speak honestly about all sides and give people clear choices.
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Just in case you were not aware, there is a wait in the US, in many cases a long one, just to see specialist. The data gathered by disinterested parties shows that US health care is worse than in many other developed countries. That is a fact. It is also a fact that although health care is better in many other developed countries than it is in the US, The cost in the US is far greater than in any other developed country. That is a fact.

Any debate should start with facts.
 
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