Learning to trade
- Thread starter mgabriel01
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busy elsewhere today
busy elsewhere today
The better rule is don't trade until you know enough not to make losses. How do you do that? Preparation, dedication and devotion.
It is not smart to be a clown. To play in the market you need to know so much that you do know when to prevent or stop trades that lose.
There is a professional approach which is not about dicking around in the market .. win some lose some. Its about the process of making yourself rich. And I'm talking about rich enough to have never been a dickhead.
If you do consider these comments to be blunt, they are still meant to be helpful.
Quote from Cheese:
The better rule is don't trade until you know enough not to make losses. How do you do that? Preparation, dedication and devotion.
It is not smart to be a clown. To play in the market you need to know so much that you do know when to prevent or stop trades that lose.
There is a professional approach which is not about dicking around in the market .. win some lose some. Its about the process of making yourself rich. And I'm talking about rich enough to have never been a dickhead.
If you do consider these comments to be blunt, they are still meant to be helpful.
Well - hard to correct the times in my life Ive already been a dickhead (which are numerous) --- but I agree with your comments
I am back primarily to paper - to learn a reliable method --- posting here simply to get feedback (and yes yours is valuable and not too blunt as far as I'm concerned)
The fact is its hard to stick only to paper ---- and trading real money is part of the process of learning to manage cash
Short trades - summary
Count Profit @ Exit Max Profit (potential)
Winners 17 $2,561 $7,760
Losers 4 ($600) ($600)
Draws 2 $0 $0
Total 23 $1,961 $7,160
Long trades - summary
Count Profit @ Exit Max Profit (potential)
Winners 16 $3,331 $10,095
Losers 6 ($900) ($900)
Draws 1 $0 $0
Total 23 $2,431 $9,195
Count Profit @ Exit Max Profit (potential)
Winners 17 $2,561 $7,760
Losers 4 ($600) ($600)
Draws 2 $0 $0
Total 23 $1,961 $7,160
Long trades - summary
Count Profit @ Exit Max Profit (potential)
Winners 16 $3,331 $10,095
Losers 6 ($900) ($900)
Draws 1 $0 $0
Total 23 $2,431 $9,195
Quote from mgabriel01:
One other note on '2 stops and out' per day
I have been using real $ to test Carters use of pivots in 'Mastering the Trade' -- and that is part of Carters rule set.
My experiment was to adhere as closely to his rule set as possible - hence the '2 stops per day' rule for Pivots
Seems to me that using pivots as Carter describes them is not reliable enough -- so I am looking at other things as well
I have not actually performed this test yet - but I suspect I could arbitrarily move the pivot points up or down 5, 10 20, 30 (whatever) YM points - and see similar action around the arbitrary pivots ---
so.....
Hi mgabril, I too tried Carters rules among others. Carter's setups don't consistently work and you can take some big hits blindly following the book. What the book is good for is learning about pivots and market internals. Again in my humble opinion the thing to do is learn all this and then spend time watching the charts and applying what you've read until it starts to make sense. Carter puts out some good stuff but really it's all about him selling his next best indicator or class or mentorship or whatever. Here are a few quotes from guys on here, the message really hits home. When I get sidetracked I read this and it brings me back to reality.
Quote from metooxx: The smarter you are, the faster you lose money.
Quote from HolyGrail:
There is no magic to trading. There are no gurus. The day you learn that there is no magic, and the day you learn to read price action is the first day on your way to becoming a profitable trader.
Don't trade to make a specific amount and don't trade to make money back. Just trade to take advantage of the opportunities you are given by the market. PERIOD. Futurestrader71
Pab(s)t Prime, Rearden Metal, Stealth Trader and others have some very good posts that help and it's free except for the time it takes to read. My apologies to the other intelligent and helpful people who post here to help other traders who I didn't mention.
Stopping after 2 losses or stopping after being up a certain amount I used to do. then I read what Futurestrader71 and Reardon Metal wrote about taking what the market will give you has put money in my pocket, I sit until the closing bell and if a signal is there I take it, many times that last trade is what has made the day profitable.
Thanks for the comments
I agree that imitating Carters pivot method (or any other book method) verbatim is a sure way to lose money in the long run
I have stopped doing it
cost me 1100 bucks in february to learn that lesson
fortunately I had some beginners luck in January and am still net positive in my trading account
My other observation at this point is that taking profits out of the market seems less a prediction game than simply a numbers game. I think I may be able to take some money out of the market on the numbers game by observing and methodically tracking price action.
Its a long term excercise --- on which I only have 24 days of experience/data recorded
so we'll see ---
Incidentally I think the Carter book was great -- by giving me an introduction on 'how' to watch
the pivot method itself - well -- it does not pan out consistently enough to make money. at least for me
the pivot method itself - well -- it does not pan out consistently enough to make money. at least for me
This on the CBOT website (absolutely free)
1. A professional trading mindset and mental edge.
2. A handful of proven setups to play.
3. A market to trade that fits an individual trader's personality.
4. A plan of action for daily, weekly and monthly P&L swings.
5. Never getting into a situation where your broker is forced to liquidate your holdings.
I like #5 especially
1. A professional trading mindset and mental edge.
2. A handful of proven setups to play.
3. A market to trade that fits an individual trader's personality.
4. A plan of action for daily, weekly and monthly P&L swings.
5. Never getting into a situation where your broker is forced to liquidate your holdings.
I like #5 especially
and, of course, this gem (absolutely free)
The emini S&Ps are a great market to trade if you are 22 years old and obtain 30% of your daily nutritional intake from Starbucks. This is a market made up of traders who are hyper-reactive, with many players trading thousands of contracts a day for quarter point gains. This is the type of intensity that can't last and burns people out. On the flip side, if a trader is more methodical and takes more than half an hour to decide which socks to wear with a pair of gray pants, then trading Exxon-Mobile (XOM) stock is going to be right up their alley.
The emini S&Ps are a great market to trade if you are 22 years old and obtain 30% of your daily nutritional intake from Starbucks. This is a market made up of traders who are hyper-reactive, with many players trading thousands of contracts a day for quarter point gains. This is the type of intensity that can't last and burns people out. On the flip side, if a trader is more methodical and takes more than half an hour to decide which socks to wear with a pair of gray pants, then trading Exxon-Mobile (XOM) stock is going to be right up their alley.