Learning to read Price Action with P&F Charting

[stevegee58]

There were several references to Tom Dorsey's book on point and figure charting in this thread and it's a good book (I own a copy).

DeVilliers' book is an "oldie but goodie" from 1939. There are pdf versions of this book floating around on the net if you look hard enough. I like having a reference that's from the dawn of point and figure charting since it's the straight dope.

 

[stevegee58]

Quote from tortoise:

My problem with PnF charting is that the bread-and-butter buy and sell signals appear nearly at random.

Bottom line: PnF, in and of itself, offers no better than coin-toss odds for success. I understand that the technique is enjoying a quasi-religious revival in some circles but methinks the emperor wears no clothes.

Some may find it helpful as a trend filter but, for heavens sake, don't play in the traffic using PnF alone! :eek:

This is completely untrue. I'm no religious zealot; this method is based purely on price action.

The "bread and butter buy and sell signals" are double and triple top and bottom breakouts. How are these random? That makes no sense at all. A triple top on a PnF chart shows up on a normal candlestick chart as well.

Saying that PnF charting "wears no clothes" is like saying there's no merit to the classic concepts of double- and triple-tops/bottoms.
Is this what you're saying?

 

[tortoise]

Quote from stevegee58:

This is completely untrue. I'm no religious zealot; this method is based purely on price action.

The "bread and butter buy and sell signals" are double and triple top and bottom breakouts. How are these random? That makes no sense at all. A triple top on a PnF chart shows up on a normal candlestick chart as well.

Saying that PnF charting "wears no clothes" is like saying there's no merit to the classic concepts of double- and triple-tops/bottoms.
Is this what you're saying?

Um ... no, that's not what I'm saying. Nice straw man, though!

As an aside, the "trader effect" has distorted some of those classic concepts: We've had a triple top or two this year that didn't quite pan out, didn't we? I certainly won't ignore triple tops (or bottoms) as a result. But I won't invest a lot of significance in them either.

The secret sauce is "nuance," something sorely lacking in PnF and other over-simplified approaches to the interpretation of market action. Here's my guess: ANYONE who thinks that some charting methodology from the 1890s is going to carry them through today's markets is fooling themselves.

 

[daveb351]

Think reversals...PnF as visual statistics.
Try various price box points/ticks & number. Look for a reversal amount where the probability of continuation is significant.

 

[HolyGrail]

Quote from tortoise:

Um ... no, that's not what I'm saying. Nice straw man, though!

As an aside, the "trader effect" has distorted some of those classic concepts: We've had a triple top or two this year that didn't quite pan out, didn't we? I certainly won't ignore triple tops (or bottoms) as a result. But I won't invest a lot of significance in them either.

The secret sauce is "nuance," something sorely lacking in PnF and other over-simplified approaches to the interpretation of market action. Here's my guess: ANYONE who thinks that some charting methodology from the 1890s is going to carry them through today's markets is fooling themselves.

Sorry, but it is very obvious you have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to P&F. Your last piece of advice is classic. Ever hear of Keep it simple stupid? When you learn how to read price action you have learned how to be profitable in the market. It's not the only way, but nevertheless, it is a way. Just because you can't use it doesn't mean it is not effective.

End of soap box. I can't believe this thread is still going.

 

[tortoise]

Quote from HolyGrail:

Sorry, but it is very obvious you have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to P&F. Your last piece of advice is classic. Ever hear of Keep it simple stupid? When you learn how to read price action you have learned how to be profitable in the market. It's not the only way, but nevertheless, it is a way. Just because you can't use it doesn't mean it is not effective.

End of soap box. I can't believe this thread is still going.

I didn't complain that PnF lacked complexity. I complained that it of lacked nuance.

Sorta like your response

 

[HolyGrail]

No, you said its signals were random which is really telling about your knowledge about the subject.

 

[tortoise]

Quote from HolyGrail:

No, you said its signals were random which is really telling about your knowledge about the subject.

I believe I said "nearly at random," but close enough.

 

[HolyGrail]

In any event, I haven't been on the board in a very long time. I was just catching up on my reading when I saw your ill-informed posts. I'm gone again. Good trading to all. I just realized this is exactly why it is no longer worth my time to be on trading boards. Everyone is an expert at least in their own minds.

 

[ammo]

tortoise your complaint says p n f is not the holy grail, i 'm eating micro wve popcorn at the moment, not manna from heaven , but will suffice for now, HG,with all due respect,this p nF system is great with another 5 or 6 confirming indicators, by itself is subject to opinion,