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[TreeFrogTrader]

A valid question, to be sure. But it is interesting that there is so such controversy or concern thus far, to my knowledge, in connection with the mRNA vaccines.

Yes, everything should be looked at for every vaccine.

There is a lot of heavy duty statistical analysis that must hold up under scrutiny too. It is not just a matter of occurrences among vaccine takers versus general pop background data but also the time distribution of the occurences, etc. For example, one might argue that xyz vaccine generated 8 blood clot cases compared to a background rate of 8 and in the general unvaccinated pop so everything is groovy. Not necessarily. What time frames we looking at? If that is 8 per year in the general pop thoughout the year compared to 8 that suspiciously occurred within ten days of receiving a certain vaccine, well then Houston we got a problem we need to look at.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

Under normal circumstances I agree with this position. It’s a very valid point. However, this vaccine rollout is a totally government funded endeavor with a national goal. Limiting vaccines to those with the least known complications helps achieve the overall goal.

Reducing hesitancy to increase percent of vaccination is in line with the overall goal.

Mind you now, you have a very valid point. If people want these vaccines outside of the federal program I would not be against that.

As overdiscussed before, I dont see a big market for AZ in the US because they have missed the timing. If AZ is a good useable vaccine though, I would nevertheless like to see it approved or not approved on the merits so that it can be manufactured for the rest of the world and I believe having American review and approval is a contribution to the world effort - if the review on the merits allows. I do not like seeing the rest of the world-Canada included- being forced over to the chinese and russian shiite because they have no choice. And I would rather see American funds given to the covax program have some vaccines in there that are not chinese. AstraZ for example (not just the Indian AZ version).

I keep saying that if cannot be approved for valid science reasons, then so be it. But I think the blood clot issue they have been experiencing got weaponized against them a bit too much simply because they are not a needed or favored company anymore. I accept that that has happened and do not really have a dog in the fight. Nevertheless, I am not naive and will be observing how nicely framed this problem with JandJ is and will be framed and managed and that might have the unintended consequence of helping AZ - because some things that they have to tolerate with JandJ might turn out to be the very same things that AZ needs to have tolerated or managed or accepted as risk factor, whatever.

Alright enough. Bottom line. We need JandJ. They be all set in the long run.

 

[gwb-trading]

As overdiscussed before, I dont see a big market for AZ in the US because they have missed the timing. If AZ is a good useable vaccine though, I would nevertheless like to see it approved or not approved on the merits so that it can be manufactured for the rest of the world and I believe having American review and approval is a contribution to the world effort - if the review on the merits allows. I do not like seeing the rest of the world-Canada included- being forced over to the chinese and russian shiite because they have no choice. And I would rather see American funds given to the covax program have some vaccines in there that are not chinese. AstraZ for example (not just the Indian AZ version).

I keep saying that if cannot be approved for valid science reasons, then so be it. But I think the blood clot issue they have been experiencing got weaponized against them a bit too much simply because they are not a needed or favored company anymore. I accept that that has happened and do not really have a dog in the fight. Nevertheless, I am not naive and will be observing how nicely framed this problem with JandJ is and will be framed and managed and that might have the unintended consequence of helping AZ - because some things that they have to tolerate with JandJ might turn out to be the very same things that AZ needs to have tolerated or managed or accepted as risk factor, whatever.

Alright enough. Bottom line. We need JandJ. They be all set in the long run.

Seeing that the Emergent Biosolutions location in Maryland was the only U.S. location designated to produce the AstraZeneca vaccine in the U.S. -- and I don't believe we will see it being used for AZ after all the production issues --- I don't see AstraZeneca vaccines for COVID ever being produced in the U.S.

India has over a dozen companies producing AZ COVID vaccines and is likely to be the worldwide center of production.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

Seeing that the Emergent Biosolutions location in Maryland was the only U.S. location designated to produce the AstraZeneca vaccine in the U.S. -- and I don't believe we will see it being used for AZ after all the production issues --- I don't see AstraZeneca vaccines for COVID ever being produced in the U.S.

India has over a dozen companies producing AZ COVID vaccines and is likely to be the worldwide center of production.

Yes, we have covered all that.

Nevertheless, that is a separate issue from whether the AZ vaccine will or could be approved for use in the U.S. The world, including Europe and Canada along with the third world countries are still looking for and in need of a low cost vaccine that has been thoroughly reviewed and either approved or disapproved on its merits in the US- even if not widely used in the U.S. That works for AZ too because getting American approval is the holy grail for any vaccine maker even if their markets are elsewhere. These other countries are not stupid. They know that chinese and russian stuff is shiite.

Anyway, I have gone over all of this. And said that it is an opportunity for Canada and we should help them if they want. Basically I am old school and looking for the US or western countries to take care of themselves and then out cup runneth over to help the other countries. We should not have to re-do what the WHO is supposed to do, but as I said, I am old school. I expect nothing but corruption from the WHO and my expectations are usually met.

Or maybe Joe will decide to subsidize pfizer and jandj vaccines for the rest of the world so the world does not necessarily need a low cost vaccine that has been thoroughly reviewed by the Americans. Always possible. A few trilliion here and there is nothing these days, seemingly.


Alright nuff.

 

[UsualName]

There’s approximately 10 million doses of the J&J vaccine out there not being used right now:

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

There’s approximately 10 million doses of the J&J vaccine out there not being used right now:

View attachment 256813

My understanding is that ALL of the blood clot patients were women. Not verifying that - just saying that is what I heard in the media.

So why would they not be moving forward with vaccinating men right now?

 

[CaptainObvious]

My understanding is that ALL of the blood clot patients were women. Not verifying that - just saying that is what I heard in the media.

So why would they not be moving forward with vaccinating men right now?

That was my question earlier. At this point there is no reason to stop vaccinating men and women over 50 as all 6 incidents were female under 50. Maybe go up to 60 for safe measure.
There will be no vaccine which is 100 percent safe for 100 percent of the people. As with the lockdown, there will be no risk free environment and the numbers for this current vaccine anomaly do not warrant stopping all people from receiving this particular shot.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

That was my question earlier. At this point there is no reason to stop vaccinating men and women over 50 as all 6 incidents were female under 50. Maybe go up to 60 for safe measure.
There will be no vaccine which is 100 percent safe for 100 percent of the people. As with the lockdown, there will be no risk free environment and the numbers for this current vaccine anomaly do not warrant stopping all people from receiving this particular shot.

What was a bit funny was that earlier Bloomberg was interviewing one of the medical experts from some university and she inadvertently went off the lefty script.

They were asking her why women would be getting it and not men so she shamefully launches right into this kneejerk response about how we all know that there are differences between men and women and "women are not men."

Heh. I am not going to touch that one. Just saying that that is not something you say out loud anymore in some circles. But, yeh, I noticed pretty early on in life that there differences.

 

[gwb-trading]

It's the end of the line for these two vector vaccines; Europe will be going with mRNA vaccines...

EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronovirus-eu-vaccines-idUSKBN2C10MU

The EU Commission has decided not to renew COVID-19 vaccine contracts next year with AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson (J&J), Italian daily La Stampa reported on Wednesday, citing a source from the Italian health ministry.

“The European Commission, in agreement with the leaders of many (EU) countries, has decided that the contracts with the companies that produce (viral vector) vaccines that are valid for the current year will not be renewed at their expiry,” the newspaper reported.

It added that Brussels would rather focus on COVID-19 vaccines using messenger RNA (mRNA) technology, such as Pfizer’s and Moderna’s.

A spokesman for the EU Commission said it was keeping all options open to be prepared for the next stages of the pandemic, for 2022 and beyond.

“We cannot, however, comment on contractual issues,” the spokesman added.

Later on Wednesday the President of the European Commission said the EU was in talks with Pfizer and BionTech for a new contract for 1.8 billion doses, confirming a Reuters report from last week.

“We need to focus on technologies that have proven their worth. mRNA vaccines are a clear case in point,” she added.

The Italian health ministry declined to comment.

The European Commission is seeking clarification from J&J about the company’s “completely unexpected” announcement of delays in COVID-19 vaccine deliveries to the EU, an EU official told Reuters on Tuesday.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

It's the end of the line for these two vector vaccines; Europe will be going with mRNA vaccines...

.

Yeh, I dunno. Somewhat true probably.

On a deeper dive it is seen that "Europe" and "the EU" are not necessarily the same thing.

For the EU to state that they are going with certain types or brands of vaccines such as Moderna and Pfizer might be true from the EU contracting point of view. Meanwhile, though Angela is off announcing that Germany is exploring using the Sputnik vaccines and some/most Eurpean countries pretty much feel that the EU has been a fuck-up organization in regard to vaccines and that they should be looking out for themselves and exploring what-all else is available wherever.