Larry Williams?
- Thread starter swtrader
- Start date
Good point Babak. My take is that Buzzy Schwartz was on the verge of an internal meltdown when he realized that he didn't have to be the biggest dog at the fire hydrant, or in other words he didn't need to compete with other money managers by managing OPM to prove he was a big dog. In the process he also realized his method is better suited to small scale rather than large scale trading (millions rather than hundreds of millions).
I agree, trading and running a fund are different things. Yet another thing is to teach someone how to trade. You can be a good trader, but a lousy teacher. I have met great researchers in my special field that were very poor teachers. I don't know how good a teacher he is, but that's what someone who is interested in his seminar should be concerned about and not something as irrelevant as how well he ran his fund.
Agreed... my bad...
Didn't mean in any way to say that he blew up ('cuz he didn't).
I read his story quite a while ago and the way I remember it was that managing OPM wasn't for him (as you pointed out) and that he did better trading just his own account.
I should really read the posts more carefully...
Didn't mean in any way to say that he blew up ('cuz he didn't).
I read his story quite a while ago and the way I remember it was that managing OPM wasn't for him (as you pointed out) and that he did better trading just his own account.
I should really read the posts more carefully...
I agree with wally and others that:
And another part of this too is that the best teachers are not even necessarily the best traders although they tend to be. It's like golf instructors, the best ones aren't necessarily the ones who play the best golf. Like Butch Harmon, Tiger's coach. Tiger's obviously a better player than Butch ever was or ever will be, but Butch is a better instructor. Best to learn from everyone and every life situation. Why limit it? And if it's a matter of where you want to spend your money to learn, you obviously should do some research to see what methods the instructor uses, what type of trading they do, what their reputation is, etc. And then decide. Like in Larry's case you could read his books, or watch a video or two before committing to a $5,000 seminar.
And also, obviously, just because someone won a trading contest doesn't imply at all that they'll be the best person to manage your money or to teach you to trade for that matter. He used very aggressive strategies to make the profit he did that year but this also can increase the odds of blowing out your capital. And, not to be critical, but the people that gave him their money to manage after he won that contest most likely just didn't get it. They probably had visions of him turning THEIR $10,000 into $1,000,000 too. Ha. Poor babies. And probably deserved to be taught some tough lessons about the realities of trading. And although there may be the occasional free lunch, if you use this as a strategy it just doesn't work. You have to do your own work. That's just the way it is. As the Tibetan Buddhist Teacher Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche once said (paraphrasing): "If Buddha was here he would be talking about jobs and money and wouldn't refer to it as "dough" etc. Working is the karmic reality of this culture at this time. If you're open to it and aware enough you could get by a while on "divine gifts", but if you use this as a strategy, that's the best way I know of to short circuit the whole process."
There are many different types of trading and just because someone is good at one doesn't necessarily mean they'll be good at another.
And another part of this too is that the best teachers are not even necessarily the best traders although they tend to be. It's like golf instructors, the best ones aren't necessarily the ones who play the best golf. Like Butch Harmon, Tiger's coach. Tiger's obviously a better player than Butch ever was or ever will be, but Butch is a better instructor. Best to learn from everyone and every life situation. Why limit it? And if it's a matter of where you want to spend your money to learn, you obviously should do some research to see what methods the instructor uses, what type of trading they do, what their reputation is, etc. And then decide. Like in Larry's case you could read his books, or watch a video or two before committing to a $5,000 seminar.
And also, obviously, just because someone won a trading contest doesn't imply at all that they'll be the best person to manage your money or to teach you to trade for that matter. He used very aggressive strategies to make the profit he did that year but this also can increase the odds of blowing out your capital. And, not to be critical, but the people that gave him their money to manage after he won that contest most likely just didn't get it. They probably had visions of him turning THEIR $10,000 into $1,000,000 too. Ha. Poor babies. And probably deserved to be taught some tough lessons about the realities of trading. And although there may be the occasional free lunch, if you use this as a strategy it just doesn't work. You have to do your own work. That's just the way it is. As the Tibetan Buddhist Teacher Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche once said (paraphrasing): "If Buddha was here he would be talking about jobs and money and wouldn't refer to it as "dough" etc. Working is the karmic reality of this culture at this time. If you're open to it and aware enough you could get by a while on "divine gifts", but if you use this as a strategy, that's the best way I know of to short circuit the whole process."
found this here on et:
Here is my take on Mr. Howard Abell: he is the Tony Robbins of the trading world. He is the feel-good psychology guru of trading. If you want to know what's in his books, and how to enjoy similar success, here is the formula:
First, start with a handful of old-as-dirt trading cliches (cut your losses, let your profits run, be confident, etc.). Come up with a bunch of analogies to dress up these old cliches and say them in new ways (for example, 'you can't score touchdowns if you don't have the ball' or 'when you start feeling bulletproof, that's when bullets pierce flesh' etc.). This should cover the first 30 pages or so. Second, find a couple of friends or acquaintances who you can pass off as successful traders (they might not be able to trade their way out of a paper bag, but it doesn't matter because no track records will be posted). Interview these 'traders,' and have them make similar observations. This should get you well past the 100 page mark- maybe even further if you are using nice sized print and putting plenty of space between the paragraphs and bullet points. Third, spice up the visual presentation by occasionally mixing in charts with the text. It doesn't really matter if the charts have anything to do with the stuff you wrote; people just like to look at charts. (You might want to add some technical notes, though, to add credibility.) Then, finally, if you still need more filler to get to the publishable stage, add in a chapter or two of public information- on the different exchanges, lists of different stocks and futures you can trade, details of order entry systems- basically some free info that takes up space.
If you follow this tried and true formula, you too should be able to crank out close to a dozen books on trading. And there will always be a fresh crop of beginners, not yet beat over the head with rehashed trading rules, to rave about how good your books are and what insight they hold.
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However, you have to put the "writers"into perspective.
The "how to do" books are a joke and I would have to say very few make it or made it as a trader.
The "story" tellers are a bit diffrent. Buzzy Schwarts, Vic, Schwager's Market Wizzards, Livermore's life, etc. These guys in these books made and some lost but came back to make. So maby its 50/50 with these type of authors.
Then the books by Douglas and psychological books taking about attitudes and confindence.....I think these are the best. The authors never claim to be traders, they study mental habits and patterns of successful traders. I think these books are far better. They are not "how to do" books, more of a mental building block type book.
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I wanted to comment about the trader/coach analogy. I hear this argument alot, particularly from vendors trying to sell seminars, books, chat rooms, etc. who can't trade. That you can teach trading without being a good trader just like a football coach can teach blocking without being 350 pounds. I just don't buy it. I do believe the basics of execution can be taught, i.e. the difference between the bid and ask, limits versus market orders, etc. But a trading methodology is either known or unknown, valid or useless.
In the football analogy, the coach knows the mechanics of success, but can't execute because he lacks the physical ability. In trading, there is no physical limitation. If you know how to do it, you should be able to do it, period. Sure, some people are better at one style than others, but a teacher should only teach what they know and can do...otherwise, where is the validity of what they teach? If football had the same problem (you could play at al levels of physical ability), you would have a lack of good teachers (just like in trading) because they would all be earning millions on the field rather than showing others how to beat them.
I know many will disagree (especially those with bullshit to sell) and that's fine, but this is the way I see it. Maybe I've gotten jaded over time from all the crap that's out there.
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right.
Here is my take on Mr. Howard Abell: he is the Tony Robbins of the trading world. He is the feel-good psychology guru of trading. If you want to know what's in his books, and how to enjoy similar success, here is the formula:
First, start with a handful of old-as-dirt trading cliches (cut your losses, let your profits run, be confident, etc.). Come up with a bunch of analogies to dress up these old cliches and say them in new ways (for example, 'you can't score touchdowns if you don't have the ball' or 'when you start feeling bulletproof, that's when bullets pierce flesh' etc.). This should cover the first 30 pages or so. Second, find a couple of friends or acquaintances who you can pass off as successful traders (they might not be able to trade their way out of a paper bag, but it doesn't matter because no track records will be posted). Interview these 'traders,' and have them make similar observations. This should get you well past the 100 page mark- maybe even further if you are using nice sized print and putting plenty of space between the paragraphs and bullet points. Third, spice up the visual presentation by occasionally mixing in charts with the text. It doesn't really matter if the charts have anything to do with the stuff you wrote; people just like to look at charts. (You might want to add some technical notes, though, to add credibility.) Then, finally, if you still need more filler to get to the publishable stage, add in a chapter or two of public information- on the different exchanges, lists of different stocks and futures you can trade, details of order entry systems- basically some free info that takes up space.
If you follow this tried and true formula, you too should be able to crank out close to a dozen books on trading. And there will always be a fresh crop of beginners, not yet beat over the head with rehashed trading rules, to rave about how good your books are and what insight they hold.
----------
However, you have to put the "writers"into perspective.
The "how to do" books are a joke and I would have to say very few make it or made it as a trader.
The "story" tellers are a bit diffrent. Buzzy Schwarts, Vic, Schwager's Market Wizzards, Livermore's life, etc. These guys in these books made and some lost but came back to make. So maby its 50/50 with these type of authors.
Then the books by Douglas and psychological books taking about attitudes and confindence.....I think these are the best. The authors never claim to be traders, they study mental habits and patterns of successful traders. I think these books are far better. They are not "how to do" books, more of a mental building block type book.
----------------------
I wanted to comment about the trader/coach analogy. I hear this argument alot, particularly from vendors trying to sell seminars, books, chat rooms, etc. who can't trade. That you can teach trading without being a good trader just like a football coach can teach blocking without being 350 pounds. I just don't buy it. I do believe the basics of execution can be taught, i.e. the difference between the bid and ask, limits versus market orders, etc. But a trading methodology is either known or unknown, valid or useless.
In the football analogy, the coach knows the mechanics of success, but can't execute because he lacks the physical ability. In trading, there is no physical limitation. If you know how to do it, you should be able to do it, period. Sure, some people are better at one style than others, but a teacher should only teach what they know and can do...otherwise, where is the validity of what they teach? If football had the same problem (you could play at al levels of physical ability), you would have a lack of good teachers (just like in trading) because they would all be earning millions on the field rather than showing others how to beat them.
I know many will disagree (especially those with bullshit to sell) and that's fine, but this is the way I see it. Maybe I've gotten jaded over time from all the crap that's out there.
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right.
Of course, there are some limitations. The most important one is a mental limitation. Jack Schwagger says that he is a system trader because he cannot handle discretionary trading. Just not cut for it. Some others are not cut for trading at all. Still, their methodology can be sound. My main problem with these people is that they are dishonest and greedy.
Nothing to write home about here.
http://www.worldcupadvisor.com/liveupdate/closedpos/showclosedpos.asp?LIVEADVISOR_ID=38
http://www.worldcupadvisor.com/liveupdate/closedpos/showclosedpos.asp?LIVEADVISOR_ID=38