Large Lots

T

tradepredictor

Does anyone have an idea what the best way to move size is? e.g. 1000 lot orders or more. I have been researching this for the past month now and have some ideas myself but wanted to open the discussion up to others.

Assumptions:
Trading will be algorithmic on the majors and during times of good volume (market liquidity). Trading strategy requires quick entry; exits would generally be within 10 minutes.

If I haven't given you enough information to answer please ask.

Please indicate if you yourself have moved this kind of size or not intraday at the beginning of any responses please.
 
Quote from prairie_piper:

You must be refering to mini lots......ie. 1,000 x $10,000 = $10,000,000....Right??
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Nope. Standard lots $100,000 * 1000 = $100,000,000.

The fills will likely come from multiple liquidity sources--unless someone knows of a another way.

For instance Deutsche Bank's retail level FX claims to be able to handle a max 500 contracts at a click ($50,000,000). So I could always just put in two separate orders but that leaves me vulnerable to all the ills inherent in trading with one shop.

I have researched some other multiple liquidity source solutions, but they have their own brand of problems (EBS for instance, great execution and prices--but difficult to handle size).

Thanks for the clarification.
 
Even at the institutional level it's best to split this kind of size up. You can split it up using the same liquidity providers or different ones, but I would try to push $100,000,000 order size through regularly, it won't be effective anywhere that I know of. Size of that magnitude is problematic and difficult to deal with, and if executing at the same instant is important, multiple liquidity providers will be the best way to go.
 
Quote from Rtrader2525:

its kinda funny that someone with all that money is coming to a forum online to ask a question like that.
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All that money?? If your stop-losses are set 5 pips away you've risked exactly $50,000 on 1000 lot orders. (If you have a 10 million account, that's 0.5% of your account exposed on the trade.) Not saying this is precisely my trading strategy, but just making a point.

Or was your point that only poor people should come on forums?
 
Trade hello, I think what Rt means is that a person who has access to that kind of size would know exactly how and where to execute size like this. If I am wrong Rt can correct me. Now assuming you actually have access to this size you will need to remember the following.

Most retail platforms will only allow 5 mio at a time, so straight up retail is out of the question. You have to either make you own agreements with banks and hedges yourself and then trade on CurreneX or you can go through a broker like aaron trade or possibly HOTS, AARON clears through ADM, HOTS self clears, but both can "turn on" as much liquidity as you need, but again there are monthly size requirements, which is totally different than straight up retail.

With CurreneX you will have to build your own FIX interface for charting, and HOTS has their own API. Also talking about size, you will never execute that kind of size straight up, you will have to iceberg the order and sell piece by piece, usually 50 mio a pop.

The Ever Interested VIPER
 
Quote from TradeViper:

Trade hello, I think what Rt means is that a person who has access to that kind of size would know exactly how and where to execute size like this. If I am wrong Rt can correct me. Now assuming you actually have access to this size you will need to remember the following.
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Hey TV, thanks yes, I understood that he meant that. However, he disincluded the possibility that someone doing well over time with a smaller account might have deep pockets and want to scale up operations but not know where to go.

I am assuming he's not a very good trader or satisfied with the amount he makes off of his current trading--because I take it for granted that any good trader would want to maximize scale on any existing profitable trading operation.

Quote from TradeViper:


Most retail platforms will only allow 5 mio at a time, so straight up retail is out of the question. You have to either make you own agreements with banks and hedges yourself and then trade on CurreneX or you can go through a broker like aaron trade or possibly HOTS, AARON clears through ADM, HOTS self clears, but both can "turn on" as much liquidity as you need, but again there are monthly size requirements, which is totally different than straight up retail.

With CurreneX you will have to build your own FIX interface for charting, and HOTS has their own API. Also talking about size, you will never execute that kind of size straight up, you will have to iceberg the order and sell piece by piece, usually 50 mio a pop.
More...

Great info. I've checked HOTS institutional and Currrenex. I definitely like hots better because of the existing API and they move good volume. Will check out aaron.

As far as iceberging the order, sure that would be the expectation--but I was seeing if any big traders out there were trading large lots directly without the 50mio pop ceiling you mentioned.
 
Quote from tradepredictor:

Hey TV, thanks yes, I understood that he meant that. However, he disincluded the possibility that someone doing well over time with a smaller account might have deep pockets and want to scale up operations but not know where to go.

I am assuming he's not a very good trader or satisfied with the amount he makes off of his current trading--because I take it for granted that any good trader would want to maximize scale on any existing profitable trading operation.



Great info. I've checked HOTS institutional and Currrenex. I definitely like hots better because of the existing API and they move good volume. Will check out aaron.

As far as iceberging the order, sure that would be the expectation--but I was seeing if any big traders out there were trading large lots directly without the 50mio pop ceiling you mentioned.
More...


ha ha wow buddy great insight! lol I was just messing around with you, viper had it right. You seem a little stressed can i draw from your defensiveness that you aren't doing very well lately?/ ha ha gimme a fucking break pal, take a joke
 
Quote from Rtrader2525:

ha ha wow buddy great insight! lol I was just messing around with you, viper had it right. You seem a little stressed can i draw from your defensiveness that you aren't doing very well lately?/ ha ha gimme a fucking break pal, take a joke
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I love taking jokes--could you tell a good one? :P
 
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