KwikPOP

[inandlong]

Way to go KwikPop. Straightforward, no BS, not critical. One post is probably okay, but the moderators will surely refer you to Baron for obvious reasons. And rightfully so...be that as it may be... nice post.

And dottom, you are always on it. I have noticed this same phenomenon. I haven't looked at this thread until just now, but on other threads your observation seems to be true.

As usual, I ain't sayin' nuthin', all I'm sayin' is...

 

[dottom]

Originally posted by Kwik*POP
A comment was made about the quality of our web site. Perhaps some people still believe that a glitzy exterior represents a quality product. We think otherwise. You don't buy the web site...you buy the product.

Kwik*POP,

I didn't make the initial "quality of your website" comment, but I believe I can clarify the original poster's intent.

You are saying that the quality of your web site should in no way be a judgement of any kind on the quality of the content you are selling. In other words, never judge a book by its cover.

In many areas of life this is very sound advice. However, I believe what the original poster of that comment was saying that in the world of trading tools/systems/software vendor, "judging a book by its cover" is a valid first step in one's evaluation of the content. The "cover" to a trading vendor's product includes the quality of the marketing materials, user testimonials, full chart histories if applicable, and hypothetical results if appropriate.

Why is "judging a book by its cover" a valid first step? Because unlike any other business, the end product of a trading business is profits. If a vendor claimed that they were selling a product that could help a trader earn $200-$600 per day, a product that costs over $1500, then a valid implication is that the vendor selling the product must have been successful at implementing this tool/method/system himself. If so, then surely the profits gained would have been such a great amount that the vendor could of at least afforded to pay a few hundred dollars for a decent web site; or a few thousand dollars for a professional web site. [There are some exceptions to this rule. e.g. I don't include charting software in the same category as vendors selling systems or tools promising profits because of "the edge" that these system/tools provide to the trader. A valid argument for charting software is "try the evaluation".]

Many vendors pop up out of nowhere with the advent of the internet on a minimal budget. It's often a one or two person shop and they minimize costs because they haven't actually made $ with the tool/method/system they are selling. So as an end result they "do it themselves" on a small budget and have low-quality marketing materials, including a "low quality" web site.

To offer you an analogy- would you hire a lawyer to represent you if their office was in a trailer home? Would you hire a heart surgeon that has a low budget office building/medical facility? No, you wouldn't. The reason you don't is because the implication is if this lawyer or doctor is successful, then they would have been able to afford a nice office.

In the internet world, your website is your office. The implication is if your methods have worked successfully for years including the present, which of course it should or why would you market it as such, then surely you could have afforded a base-level professional website.

This is not intended as an offense or judgement on your post. I am only explaining what I believe the meaning of the original post on the quality of a vendor's website, and why in the business of trading vendors that "judging a book by its cover" is a valid first step.

 

[sunnyskies]

I'm with dottom. KWIKPOP dude also offers an option of 'designated brokers' trading the system. I talked to one of them, he said they traded it for 1 month and guess what... doldrums... it LOST money. Yes, for the month, in the red. Now they are working with a programmer to automate the more discretionary apsects of the system. Anyway, how can KWIKPOP be traded thru broker-assist when it's discretionary, not even a system?? You know why the Dude doesn't post historical results? Cause, my guess is, trading it mechanically you don't have an edge! Now in his 'super-response'... he says "who would sell a holy grail?" well, by same token "who would sell 'a really good set of tools'?" The website is deceptive, I went thru it several times, I got the impression it was a MECHANICAL system. Now, saying it's discretionary frees the vendor from any accountability, because he can always say "yea you got A and B right, but you misread the C". Selling discretionary "systems" is useless (except for the seller Discretionary system is an OXYMORON.

 

[jsk2424]

The comments to the "broker assist" program are absolutely correct. The program "off the record" is promoted as a black box system with recommended brokers. Many of these guys want to avoid any issues with the regulators so they specifically skirt the issue of it being a systems by outwardly calling it a "tool." We used to be one of those "recommended brokers" and stopped after realising, and this is with many months of experience, that it does not work in any capacity. We had some very sophisticated people test it to see if it is the least bit useful and with time the conclusion is no! This product, like many others, is designed by one guy that sits in his house and tries to come up with a way to make some money in the markets besides trading. It is very easy to be fooled initially. Use some commons sense here and see if you had something, even a "tool" that worked well, would you sell it? Dont confuse a slick presentation and sales pitch with substance.

 

[Yannis]

Sunnyskies,

I did speak with that broker, David from Global Futures, before getting KP. His statement was that he had traded it for about 3 weeks: he made money the first two and he gave it back the third. The reason, he said, was that KP is not a mechanical system: you have to watch the market and make your own decisions in real time, which is more than he was prepared to do. He is still bullish on KP and is working to improve a few things to his liking so that he can trade it more easily.

That of course didn't surprise me. I also spoke with several traders, users of the system, and the response was overwhelmingly positive. At any rate, now I have it and am in the process of making my own decision.

As far as your comment on the use of the term "system" is concerned, there are people who use this term in many different ways. Expressions like computer system, software system, mechanical system, automated trading system, discretionary system, black/grey/white box system, and so on. It is up to us to ask questions and clarify what a vendor has in mind.

 

[daytrader6758]

I was going to walk away without any reply but I cannot do it. This was my first effort to be part of a chat group and I guess I am not suited for this room. All I wanted was a straight answer, like most of us wish for. I have watched their Live demonstration and it is quite impressive and so is their program

Now, please give me a reply that means something--not just a bashing because you want to feel important. Has anyone actually tried this program?

 

[dottom]

Originally posted by daytrader6758
I was going to walk away without any reply but I cannot do it. This was my first effort to be part of a chat group and I guess I am not suited for this room. All I wanted was a straight answer, like most of us wish for. I have watched their Live demonstration and it is quite impressive and so is their program

Now, please give me a reply that means something--not just a bashing because you want to feel important. Has anyone actually tried this program?

Did you read jsk2424's reply? Read some of his other posts and you will recognize he is a sophisticated user. PM him if you really want to talk to someone who thoroughly tested this product, that is if you're not just a KwikPOP troll.

 

[Yannis]

Originally posted by daytrader6758
I was going to walk away without any reply but I cannot do it. This was my first effort to be part of a chat group and I guess I am not suited for this room. All I wanted was a straight answer, like most of us wish for. I have watched their Live demonstration and it is quite impressive and so is their program

Now, please give me a reply that means something--not just a bashing because you want to feel important. Has anyone actually tried this program?

DayTrader,

Yes, I did buy this product and have been using it for a few weeks. I believe it is excellent, and at this point I am very happy with my decision. Let me summarize my findings:

1. KP is a very good packaging of indicators (some proprietary, some openly available.) Easy to install and use, whether you use TradeStation or MetaStock (you need one of them to run it.)

2. The support (initial and ongoing) from the developer and his partner is outstanding, imo. Two rich websites, 20 videos available for download, two chatrooms (one for prospective clients and one for owners,) frequent seminars on the web, knowledgeable people who answer the phone and help with urgent questions, etc. Not perfect, the whole operation is evolving continuously, but better than most.

3. This is not a "signal delivering black box" of sorts. You will not get any unambiguous buy/sell signals. What you will get is lots of help to understand the trend of a market, the power of the trend, and suggestions as to when approximately you should consider entering and exiting.

4. The point above is the main argument here and elsewhere. People, especially less experienced traders, hear the word "system" and imagine a magical machine that will trade for them. Or at least, a piece of software that beeps with a blue light the exact moment you should go long and with a red light when you should go short. Brokers love that sort of thing because they are busy trading 16 systems for 50 customers while trying to sell their services over the phone at the same time. Btw, if you do find a good one of those trading machines, please let me know - I'll buy 10 of them

5. To amplify the main point, KwikPOP is a set of indicators that helps traders trade better. The more you already know how to trade, the more value you will get out of it. The more you can focus on your own trading and trade in their suggested way, more or less, the more value you will get out of it. Imagine all the indicators you have in a package like eSignal, or even TradeStation. Useful, right? Now imagine something that multiplies their value and ease of use, coupled with a method to use the unique benefits of that packaging. That's KP's emphasis and focus.

6. Since you've already seen the product, you may be looking for more quantitative details. For this you'd have to wait a bit, because, as I mentioned above, I'm a relatively new user of KP (but quite experienced as a trader overall.) Having said that, here's what I do have. This past week I tried the following experiment: trade 1 ES a la KP (as much as possible) with a profit target of (about) 2 points and a stop loss of (about) 2 points. Moreover, my plan was to stop trading when I have made 4 points for the day or have lost 4 points for the day. Each of these past 5 trading days was a success (made the 4 points.) This coming week I plan to double the bet and see what happens... wish me luck.

7. Bottom line is that I like it and am getting lots of value out of it. Others may not like it for various reasons of their own, and I don't blame them. We all have our preferences, likes and dislikes.

If you are even a bit interested, keep working with it (in a trial mode: study the material posted, view the videos, talk with the KP people and other users, etc) by all means and form your own conclusions.

And feel free to pm me and ask any questions you may have.

Good luck with your trading.

 

[ges]

Dottom,

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

The voice of reason and skepticism that is absolutely essential in the trading business. The vendor world is full of flim flam artists. It's the same old story...over and over and over again.

Hey...in my novitiate stupidity I bought Indigo!! Talk about throwing money down a rat hole. I've learned a lot since then. You cannot be TOO SKEPTICAL when looking at any trading product offered by any vendor.

I just got an upgrade notice for Metastock. It has always had the lamest of system testers and now marginally improved. What a joke. But look at how they sell it. BS by the bucketfull.

TechnifilterPlus set me free, opened my eyes, and gave me a way to really evaulate systems.

Glenn

 

[jem]

good work dottom, and contrary to the potential shill's evaluation of this thread I thought it was about as good a response as one could get. What was he expecting, lots of users with 5 year track records.