KOSPI 200 Futures - Traders

While I understand that KOSPI 200 Future is liquid, comparing ES and KOSPI 200 Fut I can’t see why trading KOSPI 200 Fut is of special interest (unless it’s just time zone).

COMPARE AVAILABLE LEVERAGE
Better leverage available with ES.
******

Contract Value
ES, 1245 x $50 = approx $62k
KOSPI 200, 241 x KRW 500,000 = KRW 120,500,000 = approx $105k

Initial Margin (using IB data)
ES, $2.5k
KOSPI 200, 9,295,750 KRW = approx $9k

So, Available Leverage
ES, $62k/$2.5k = 25 X
KOSPI 200, = 12 X


COMPARE BY DAILY RANGE
If your edge is the same in both markets, trading ES gives you a more leveraged exposure to the daily price action.
******
ES, say daily range between 10 – 30 points usually
Value of 10 – 30 points (i.e. number of points X $50) is $500 - $1500 /contract
So trading 1 contract (initial margin $2.5k) able to trade a daily range worth $500 - $1500
So, daily range is worth 20% - 60% of initial margin.

KOSPI, say daily range between 3 - 7 points usually
Value of 3 – 7 points (i.e. number of points X KRW 500,000) is KRW 1,500,000 – KRW 3,500,000, is approx $1300 - $3000 /contract.
So trading 1 contract (initial margin approx $9k) able to trade a daily range worth approx $1300 - $3000
So, daily range is worth 14% - 33% of initial margin.


COMPARE BY COMMISSIONS
Commissions are comparable, or possibly even better for trading KOSPI 200.
******
Commissions (using IB data)
ES, approx $4 on round trip (I hope I’ve calculated that correctly…)
So, trading 1 contract (initial margin approx $2.5k), you pay out an amount equivalent to 0.2% of initial margin for each contract traded.
Or, alternatively in terms of value of daily range ($500 - $1500 /contract) , you pay out an amount equivalent to 0.3% - 0.8% of value of daily range.

KOSPI 200, “0.004% of trade value”
1 Roundturn => 2 Contracts @ KRW 241 (500,000 Multiplier) => KRW 241,000,0000 x 0.004% = KRW 9640 = approx $8 for round trip.
So, trading 1 contract (initial margin approx $9k), you pay out an amount equivalent to 0.09% of initial margin for each contract traded.
Or, alternatively in terms of value of daily range ($1300 - $3000 /contract) , you pay out an amount equivalent to 0.3% - 0.6% of value of daily range.
 
Quote from def:

11am Singapore would be 10 PM EST so your times don't quite match. However, it sounds to me like you're on the US server which resets around midnight EST. I'd check with a ticket to customer service and ask them to place you on the HK server if you primarily trade Asian markets. this way you'll avoid the daily reset and should reduce your latency. If you continue to get pink screens, contact Tech Support at CS as they can further drill down to find out why you're getting timeouts as this is not normal.
More...

Hi def,

Thanks for the info. I will give IB another shot. Hopefully it's a US server issue for me.
 
Hi all,

I got the fastest and most detailed reply from Woori Futures.
If you are interested in setting up a korean account, you may consider them.


Questions:

2) Can the Kospi 200 Futures data feed from Woori futures be linked to NinjaTrader 7 or other platforms like TradeStation?
>>Yes, it can be linked to TradeStation.


Commission
3) What is the commission per trade in KRW for Kospi 200 Futures?
>>It is 0.2bp%, which can be negotiated depending on size

Margin Requirement
4) What is the margin I must deposit with Woori Futures in order to day trade Kospi 200 Futures? I am a 1 or 2 lot per trade, day trader, who will exit all positions before market close.
>>Preliminary margin: KRW 15ML

Initial margin: 15% of the full value of contracts

Maintenance margin: 10% of the full value of contracts


5) Can my margin deposit be lower since I only trade 1 or 2 lots of Kospi 200 Futures per trade & exit all my positions at the end of the day?
>>No, all clients must meet margin requirement.


6) What is the intraday margin I must meet to day trade 1 or 2 lots of Kospi 200 Futures?
>>Order margin: 15% of the full value of contracts.

Ex) if the price is 246.70 and you want to buy 1 contract, 246.70 x 500,000 x 1 x 0.15


Funding My Account
7) How do I fund my account? What are the transfer fee charges?
>>Wire the funds to your account at Woori Futures.

There is no charge for transfer on our side.


8) Can I fund my account in my local currency & maintain my deposit with Woori Futures as those instead of KRW? If not do you accept margin in USD or CHF?
>>Yes, you may deposit in USD/CHF instead of KRW but 1/3 should be in KRW. USD/CHF are all acceptable foreign currencies, however there is a haircut ratio, 95% valuation assessment.

9) The money I earn/ lose will be in KRW when trading Kospi futures. Will my account balance be in KRW then? Can I choose to convert & hold it in another currency using the HTS platform?
>>Yes, all P/L will be in KRW. Each day your foreign currency is valuated at exchange rate given by the exchange. You can either just hold the foreign currency or convert it to KRW.



Standing Proxy
10) Do I have to appoint a standing proxy?
>>No


11) If I have to appoint one, how can I do so?
>>N/A


12) What are the additional costs involved?
>>N/A



Opening a Cash Account at Bank
13) I have a local Savings account. Can I use this instead?
>>Yes, you may use those accounts.


14) If not, how do i open a cash account that meets Woori Future's requirements?
>>N/A


18) How long does it take to open an account from the day Woori Futures receives my application form?
>>Couple of hours will do.


Competitors
19) What does Woori futures offer that is than its competitors?
>>We offer reliable service and real time assistance, we are all fluent in English and can help assist with any problems related to trading or technical issues. We have experience in the market for quite some time and know what our clients need.
 
Quote from abattia:

While I understand that KOSPI 200 Future is liquid, comparing ES and KOSPI 200 Fut I can’t see why trading KOSPI 200 Fut is of special interest (unless it’s just time zone).

COMPARE AVAILABLE LEVERAGE
Better leverage available with ES.
******

Contract Value
ES, 1245 x $50 = approx $62k
KOSPI 200, 241 x KRW 500,000 = KRW 120,500,000 = approx $105k

Initial Margin (using IB data)
ES, $2.5k
KOSPI 200, 9,295,750 KRW = approx $9k

So, Available Leverage
ES, $62k/$2.5k = 25 X
KOSPI 200, = 12 X


COMPARE BY DAILY RANGE
If your edge is the same in both markets, trading ES gives you a more leveraged exposure to the daily price action.
******
ES, say daily range between 10 – 30 points usually
Value of 10 – 30 points (i.e. number of points X $50) is $500 - $1500 /contract
So trading 1 contract (initial margin $2.5k) able to trade a daily range worth $500 - $1500
So, daily range is worth 20% - 60% of initial margin.

KOSPI, say daily range between 3 - 7 points usually
Value of 3 – 7 points (i.e. number of points X KRW 500,000) is KRW 1,500,000 – KRW 3,500,000, is approx $1300 - $3000 /contract.
So trading 1 contract (initial margin approx $9k) able to trade a daily range worth approx $1300 - $3000
So, daily range is worth 14% - 33% of initial margin.


COMPARE BY COMMISSIONS
Commissions are comparable, or possibly even better for trading KOSPI 200.
******
Commissions (using IB data)
ES, approx $4 on round trip (I hope I’ve calculated that correctly…)
So, trading 1 contract (initial margin approx $2.5k), you pay out an amount equivalent to 0.2% of initial margin for each contract traded.
Or, alternatively in terms of value of daily range ($500 - $1500 /contract) , you pay out an amount equivalent to 0.3% - 0.8% of value of daily range.

KOSPI 200, “0.004% of trade value”
1 Roundturn => 2 Contracts @ KRW 241 (500,000 Multiplier) => KRW 241,000,0000 x 0.004% = KRW 9640 = approx $8 for round trip.
So, trading 1 contract (initial margin approx $9k), you pay out an amount equivalent to 0.09% of initial margin for each contract traded.
Or, alternatively in terms of value of daily range ($1300 - $3000 /contract) , you pay out an amount equivalent to 0.3% - 0.6% of value of daily range.
More...

Time zone of the market is one of its very attractive attributes.

10-30 ticks of ES range is not the norm. During calmer period KOSPI tend to have a better intra day range than ES.
 
Quote from Arcap:

I'm not sure about seasoned, but on a relative basis I have gone through quite a bit of trail and error with this from both a trading and clearing perspective over the last couple years. As far as trading access, IB is pretty much it from a retail avenue. MF Global has access, but that is through the JP Morgan desk and has to go in by phone. They are working on electronic access, but it is still in the works as of last week. Newedge has higher account mins last I checked. Unless you want to hop a plane to Korea, and open up a local, IB is it. I love the contract and trade probably a hundred or so round turns per night there over a couple of accounts. Avoid her late in the session if you want to keep your sanity, and focus on her from about 30 minutes post open for about the next two hours. By the time Honk Kong breaks for lunch, leave her alone as the randomness seems to ensue. As far as my favorites, Kospi, Hang Seng and the Dax are best of breed for smaller traders running less than 10 mil and I also have a soft spot for the SPI in Australia, even though that is a bit of a love-hate relationship.
More...

Thanks for your thoughts on markets to trade. Have had a couple of days on the SPI and it really seems to have a similar feel to the kospi which I like. How do you find the Hang seng? - I haven't had chance to look into it much, but have heard that it's pretty crazy.

Also, agree with your observations on the Kospi. I never start before 930 and am usually out by 2pm. Lunchtime is easy to get chopped up and lose the morning's profits.

I had a look at the Nikkei mini, but fell asleep either waiting to get filled, or for something to actually happen.

My system only really allows me about 3-5 trades per day, so it's good to have a few markets in a similar timezone to look at.
 
Quote from dtb37:

Thanks for your thoughts on markets to trade. Have had a couple of days on the SPI and it really seems to have a similar feel to the kospi which I like. How do you find the Hang seng? - I haven't had chance to look into it much, but have heard that it's pretty crazy.

Also, agree with your observations on the Kospi. I never start before 930 and am usually out by 2pm. Lunchtime is easy to get chopped up and lose the morning's profits.

I had a look at the Nikkei mini, but fell asleep either waiting to get filled, or for something to actually happen.

My system only really allows me about 3-5 trades per day, so it's good to have a few markets in a similar timezone to look at.
More...

HSI is more whacked than DAX in the aspect that some prices may even be skipped through.

For nikkei 225, if you go to the osaka exchange website and d/l the docs on % breakdown of pple trading it, you'll see that many are foreigners.. these guys are the same 'locals' who trade NK225 on SGX at trading arcades. These guys have servers at each exchange, which means their connections are very much faster than our home connections. Since NK225 is traded on OSE, SGX n CME + it has a high tick increment of 5pts, I'd say it's a scalper's inter-mkt game.. where the fastest fingers win. Unless you are trading it on a longer tf or are using it to hedge, it's not advisable to trade it from home.
 
Quote from econbizer:

HSI is more whacked than DAX in the aspect that some prices may even be skipped through.

For nikkei 225, if you go to the osaka exchange website and d/l the docs on % breakdown of pple trading it, you'll see that many are foreigners.. these guys are the same 'locals' who trade NK225 on SGX at trading arcades. These guys have servers at each exchange, which means their connections are very much faster than our home connections. Since NK225 is traded on OSE, SGX n CME + it has a high tick increment of 5pts, I'd say it's a scalper's inter-mkt game.. where the fastest fingers win. Unless you are trading it on a longer tf or are using it to hedge, it's not advisable to trade it from home.
More...

Cheers for the info on those. I think I'll stick to the kospi and spi for the moment and look at the dax next year.

If you don't mind me asking, where are you based and what else do you trade? I'm in New Zealand, so I usually work on my other business in the morning and trade from midday to 6pm which works well.
 
Quote from dtb37:

Cheers for the info on those. I think I'll stick to the kospi and spi for the moment and look at the dax next year.

If you don't mind me asking, where are you based and what else do you trade? I'm in New Zealand, so I usually work on my other business in the morning and trade from midday to 6pm which works well.
More...

Hi there, I'm from Singapore. I'm trade 1 lot on ES at the moment as it suits my 2% of capital @ risk/ trade rule. Other than ES, I have only very limited attempts at kospi & stopped due to its tick size of 22usd v ES at 12.50usd. It's mentally screwing to be down 10% of my cap with just 3 bad trades in a row.

Also used to trade nikkei 225 futures, then hit a roadblock as a breakeven trader.. unable to master the special skill sets needed such as order flow reading. I have stopped since to focus on price action trading which is more suited to my slow wits.

If you are seeking ideas on what other instruments to trade other than kospi, ES and FESX (bid/asks r thicker) comes to mind. These contracts are all similar in terms of liquidity and movement. Hence if you can trade kospi, you can trade these.

You sound like you have a great part-time morning job. ES could work since you can trade it thru the night before heading to work. It's a good time now since DST is off and it's 1 hour closer to your waking time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top