All true.
Funny that is he writes this on his home page, "Our Motto is Friendship, Camaraderie and Support"
KingfishTraders
- Thread starter 4XIS4U
- Start date
All true.
Funny that is he writes this on his home page, "Our Motto is Friendship, Camaraderie and Support"
Here are a dozen trading scams that come to mind (in no order of priority)
kingfishtraders.com - KingFish Day Trading Program
trendfund.com - Waxie
tradingmarkets.com - Too many to list, see TradersGalleria Homepage
wizetrade.com - Wizetrade
4xmadeeasy.com - 4X Made Easy
traderscoach.com - Applied Reality Trading Course
coiledmarkets.com - CM emini-ATM Method
ablesys.com - eASCTrend
tradersinternational.com - TIMES Course
rsofhouston.com - Home Study Course
pristine.com - Pristine Method
changewave.com - Tobin Smith
And I can go on and on and on.
Please add to the list to help the newbie members.
Although it hasn't had much traffic recently, the trickortrade.com website was a good source of trading vendors.
Also, the cftc.gov website is a great source of infomation.
kingfishtraders.com - KingFish Day Trading Program
trendfund.com - Waxie
tradingmarkets.com - Too many to list, see TradersGalleria Homepage
wizetrade.com - Wizetrade
4xmadeeasy.com - 4X Made Easy
traderscoach.com - Applied Reality Trading Course
coiledmarkets.com - CM emini-ATM Method
ablesys.com - eASCTrend
tradersinternational.com - TIMES Course
rsofhouston.com - Home Study Course
pristine.com - Pristine Method
changewave.com - Tobin Smith
And I can go on and on and on.
Please add to the list to help the newbie members.
Although it hasn't had much traffic recently, the trickortrade.com website was a good source of trading vendors.
Also, the cftc.gov website is a great source of infomation.
<b>tomhaden,</b> please define your interpretation of the term "scam".
I personally know traders who are using logic from RSofH profitably for years. I know a few TI students using the (former approach) logic of oscillator divergence profitably for years.
Kevin Haggerty markets a few courses thru TradingMarkets that work. Kevin was/is a professional trader who might be a bit bigger size and more successful than you. The material in his courses are certainly not "scams".
*
I've worked with hundreds of traders on a casual to personal basis for the past six years. A fair number of them have professesd to buying - owning - dabbling with dozens of methods = systems in their brief careers. None of those approaches worked, per se. When asked why all of those methods failed to work for said traders, the reply has always been vague and drifty.
Not once has a method spinner = junkie ever said, <i>"Austin, to be honest the problem really is me. When it's all boiled down, I had the wrong expectations for success. Thought I could spend x-amount of money and learn how to trade in mindless, A-B-C fashion."
"I thought paying for information would let me circumvent the need to master my own emotional control. I tried each approach for a few days = weeks, but insisted on trading real money from day one. I didn't use good money management. I cannot control my own emotions, which compel me to take too many trades, not enough trades and the wrong trades."
"I cannot help adding in my own previous poor experiences = baggage to each new attempt. To be honest Austin, I'm an emotional wreckage in need of a rest."</i>
In five minutes I'm leaving for the day and haven't much time to elaborate here. Suffice it to say that calling all of the programs listed a "scam" is pure bullsh*t. What you are really saying is this: "All of them proclaim instant, easy path to trading success with nil effort on the user's part."
Go back and read thru all of the offers posted on your list. The ones that don't proclaim instant, easy success to trading are legit. Some of them offer solid info to the trade entry = execution part of trading that saves years of time and thousands $$ to learn. You are responsible for the self-learning and emotional control part. Marry all aspects of trading success, and you'll find some of the material on that errant list to be anything but a scam.
Happy Thanksgiving!
I personally know traders who are using logic from RSofH profitably for years. I know a few TI students using the (former approach) logic of oscillator divergence profitably for years.
Kevin Haggerty markets a few courses thru TradingMarkets that work. Kevin was/is a professional trader who might be a bit bigger size and more successful than you. The material in his courses are certainly not "scams".
*
I've worked with hundreds of traders on a casual to personal basis for the past six years. A fair number of them have professesd to buying - owning - dabbling with dozens of methods = systems in their brief careers. None of those approaches worked, per se. When asked why all of those methods failed to work for said traders, the reply has always been vague and drifty.
Not once has a method spinner = junkie ever said, <i>"Austin, to be honest the problem really is me. When it's all boiled down, I had the wrong expectations for success. Thought I could spend x-amount of money and learn how to trade in mindless, A-B-C fashion."
"I thought paying for information would let me circumvent the need to master my own emotional control. I tried each approach for a few days = weeks, but insisted on trading real money from day one. I didn't use good money management. I cannot control my own emotions, which compel me to take too many trades, not enough trades and the wrong trades."
"I cannot help adding in my own previous poor experiences = baggage to each new attempt. To be honest Austin, I'm an emotional wreckage in need of a rest."</i>
In five minutes I'm leaving for the day and haven't much time to elaborate here. Suffice it to say that calling all of the programs listed a "scam" is pure bullsh*t. What you are really saying is this: "All of them proclaim instant, easy path to trading success with nil effort on the user's part."
Go back and read thru all of the offers posted on your list. The ones that don't proclaim instant, easy success to trading are legit. Some of them offer solid info to the trade entry = execution part of trading that saves years of time and thousands $$ to learn. You are responsible for the self-learning and emotional control part. Marry all aspects of trading success, and you'll find some of the material on that errant list to be anything but a scam.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Kingfish, why would anybody want to call you? You are a drunk LOSER and a FRAUD. Your trial SUCKS. All you do during your trial is curse at customers. You even called everybody on this thread IDIOTS. You are the only IDIOT on this thread Kingfish.
I'm a former TI student, and while the method of trading divergences works pretty well once you become a pro at it just like most other logical systems , one of the many problems with the Traders International ("TI") Course is that they stressed the 2pt Stop/2pt Target as being the one to choose and optimal. They also said you could let the trade run, but were vague in terms of when you should close it ... that's because they didn't know.
Another problem is that they believed so little in the ultimate positive expectation of their system that Ashfin went-in wallet first with a guy named Franz Shoar, a big-time CON, SCAM ARTIST and PAPER TRADER, who conned the crap out of anyone who would listen to him and the stories of his BullsEye Signals, which he claimed where real trades netting $100,000 at a pop, when they were not. When TI came here and started posting their advertisements they got busted big-time, and turned tail and ran.
(When I was there, 6 mos to a year before I came here) I paid for the TI Course, so that's where I put my focus, the problem that everyone encountered with he system is that you would need a 70% win rate to make about 800 gross per month, per contract, the problem was, the system didn't have it (way too much detail to get into here).
No, the former Traders International students just thought they could learn how to trade, and why not, it's what they where told, after all, and what they paid their money for.
Actually, the TI Course stresses that you must have at least 10 consecutive days of trading the system with a win before you can trade live money, but they don't actually give you any of the win/loss stats to help teach a trader how to really manager their money correctly, they just tell the traders they can win 2pts ($100) bucks every days by trading their system. If that were even remotely true, they would not have had Franz and Dave and whoever else pumping the services of a con man.
Shrug, outing a scammer isn't baggage, it's experience ... there is a difference.
No, outting YOU as a sammer is pure bullsh*t. Traders International is definitely SCAM CITY, and I haven't had any direct experience with these other systems so I can't speak to what they are or are not, that's OK, I really don't need to.
You make a valid and well thought-out arguement in the above paragraph ... and I agree with you.
1) Sold trade entry. Yes, someone selling a system most definitely should have a system that offers solid trade entry.
2) Trader is responsible for the self-learning. Yes, a trader must study hard and apply themselves rigoursly to the method.
3) Trader is responsible for emotional control. Yes, very, very true. The ability to control one's emotions though will in-part come from having a system that actually "works".
4) While some of those systems may be good (and actually NOT A SCAM, as they are posted to be), the truth of the matter for anyone reading this thread is that a trader can save a bundle and actually do much better by just reading through threads here at Elite Trader, studying, and applying themselves to the task-at-hand.
Not that these threads will give you the Key's to Puzzle (though some of them might, ya never know), they will help a trader begin to learn the rules by which they can learn to trade, and trade well.
5) ... you'll find some of the material on that errant list to be anything but a scam. Yes, some of those systems may be OK to actually good, but sorting through the BS Artists is going to cost a trader quite a bundle in terms of money spent on a system, and then lost trading it, to actually find a "system that works" (maybe) - ultimately, I don't believe vendor shopping makes for a very good trade-off.
For me personally, I realized that if I wanted to learn how to trade, I would have to do it myself, nobody's going to give me a system which can trade my money better than I can, for cash money. - well actually, they might, but it's going to cost me too much money to buy it.
... and a Very Happy Thanksgiving to you and everyone else. too
.
I'd mention something that works for me but I don't want to get your thread shut down.
Rennick out
ps. Ma has the house smelling like it does only once a year. This is my favorite holiday, better than Christmas in that the focus is on the Good Lord instead of greed and other bad human traits that rule the Holiday season.
Rennick out
ps. Ma has the house smelling like it does only once a year. This is my favorite holiday, better than Christmas in that the focus is on the Good Lord instead of greed and other bad human traits that rule the Holiday season.
Back from a morning of tramping thru the woods, fields & swamps... totally outwitted by whitetail deer, which sneak circles around us hapless hunters and probably snicker to themselves in the process.
Then again, they've been on earth since the dinosaur age in present form and the U.S. deer population has never been higher than it is today. If deer ever learn to avoid oncoming headlights, they'll soon take over our world <laugh>
*
<b>JJ</b>, my reference to TI was pre-bullseye days. In reality, the "bullseye" stuff is merely <i>Advanced Get</i> logic reformatted.
My definition of "scam" is a deliberate attempt to cheat someone out of money = goods = services in exchange for worthless barter. I'm quite sure there is value in the arbitrary list posted earlier based on someone's personal opinion, not fact.
**
There are at least two emini trade method threads in this forum I have followed for amusement sake. In both cases, the OP is highly lauded for sharing valued info. If the OP had decided to sell the exact-same info for $99 or more, they'd be labeled a fraud and scam in the earlier list posted.
Why? Because since the original post, dozens on followers have chimed in with additional indicators, tools, timeframe charts, etc. The OP began with recipes for a plain cheeseburger, and now the current posts describe a recipe for pizza.
Likewise, most if not all of the followers profess no ability to be profitable yet... they are still dabbling to make that happen, in some cases weeks or months later.
Most of the modifications are based on indicator tweaks, settings and adjustments. I can see at one glance where some price pattern skills = knowledge added to the mix would make a monumental difference in results. A couple of simple twists would make those methods very profitable over the course of time.
***
At this point in my career, I really don't care what other people think. I myself offer advice where I can, everyone is free to take it or leave it at that. For those who insist on constructing a profitable method from free info sources, I applaud the effort. Eventually thru enough trial, error and money missed = lost the inevitable survivors will find their own success.
Meanwhile, others who already have some key answers will quietly enjoy the fruits of their previous labors. And so the process continues, generation after generation of traders.
****
<b>Rennick</b>, this is my favorite holiday too. Christmas is nothing but a commercialized mess. Thanksgiving is much more pure... and all of us here have everything in the world to be grateful for. Too many good people on earth did not wake up this morning, and too many more will not wake up tomorrow. I'm grateful to be amongst those enjoying today's blessing, and God willing will able to do the same tomorrow.
Now, back to the woods for more humiliation at the hooves of those "simple" animals :>)
Best Holiday Wishes
Then again, they've been on earth since the dinosaur age in present form and the U.S. deer population has never been higher than it is today. If deer ever learn to avoid oncoming headlights, they'll soon take over our world <laugh>
*
<b>JJ</b>, my reference to TI was pre-bullseye days. In reality, the "bullseye" stuff is merely <i>Advanced Get</i> logic reformatted.
My definition of "scam" is a deliberate attempt to cheat someone out of money = goods = services in exchange for worthless barter. I'm quite sure there is value in the arbitrary list posted earlier based on someone's personal opinion, not fact.
**
There are at least two emini trade method threads in this forum I have followed for amusement sake. In both cases, the OP is highly lauded for sharing valued info. If the OP had decided to sell the exact-same info for $99 or more, they'd be labeled a fraud and scam in the earlier list posted.
Why? Because since the original post, dozens on followers have chimed in with additional indicators, tools, timeframe charts, etc. The OP began with recipes for a plain cheeseburger, and now the current posts describe a recipe for pizza.
Likewise, most if not all of the followers profess no ability to be profitable yet... they are still dabbling to make that happen, in some cases weeks or months later.
Most of the modifications are based on indicator tweaks, settings and adjustments. I can see at one glance where some price pattern skills = knowledge added to the mix would make a monumental difference in results. A couple of simple twists would make those methods very profitable over the course of time.
***
At this point in my career, I really don't care what other people think. I myself offer advice where I can, everyone is free to take it or leave it at that. For those who insist on constructing a profitable method from free info sources, I applaud the effort. Eventually thru enough trial, error and money missed = lost the inevitable survivors will find their own success.
Meanwhile, others who already have some key answers will quietly enjoy the fruits of their previous labors. And so the process continues, generation after generation of traders.
****
<b>Rennick</b>, this is my favorite holiday too. Christmas is nothing but a commercialized mess. Thanksgiving is much more pure... and all of us here have everything in the world to be grateful for. Too many good people on earth did not wake up this morning, and too many more will not wake up tomorrow. I'm grateful to be amongst those enjoying today's blessing, and God willing will able to do the same tomorrow.
Now, back to the woods for more humiliation at the hooves of those "simple" animals :>)
Best Holiday Wishes
It doesn\'t take much digging to reveal the business model/scheme at coiledmarkets.com.
Exhibit A
Web Archive of past coiledmarkets.com pages
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://coiledmarkets.com
Browse through some of the older pages and you will find many different systems and methods being sold for futures and forex and then several months later being pulled and replaced with the next best thing. Only the next best thing is itself replaced in the near future. Remember the PivotPower method?
Scheme works like this:
1. Release system(s) and/or method(s)
2. When system/method begins to fail, lower price and/or remove from sale
3. Release the Next Best Thing as a replacement for previous product(s)
4. Repeat as needed
Example:
1. Release PivotPower method
2. Remove from sale around Dec. 10, 2005.
3. Rename/release APivotReverse method
4. Pull APivotReverse method Dec. 26, 2005.
5. Release CM APR-24 Emini Method
6. Tweak and change name to CM emini-ATM method
7. Tweak method in Summer 2006
8. Drop price from $2000 to $500
9. Remove CM emini-ATM method (TBD in near future)
All of the above, except for #9, comes direct from the archive pages at web.archive.org; #9 is speculation from previous actions.
Exhibit B
A thread existed on EliteTrader several months ago titled \"Steve Austin calls ET a Bitch Fest\" but has mysteriously vanished. But thanks to web/search engine caching, we can view most of it.
Web Archive
http://web.archive.org/web/20060526051605/www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=68963web/
Google Cache (View the cache version, as the thread was killed on ET)
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=s...search=elitetrader.com&as_rights=&safe=images
Exhibit C
Never reveal your actual trade entries and/or produce a system in which hindsight always makes you correct.
Always be very suspicious of any vendor not willing to show you actual trade results from a real money account. Usually indicative of a hindsight system.
And this post can be easily confirmed with some web searches on both ET and other trading boards for additional feedback.
---
This is only my opinion. Anyone who wants to give out their hard earned money to coiledmarkets.com or any of the other sites I listed (or the many I forgot to list), is welcome to do so.