keystone trading group

Quote from hippietrader:


I agree that the odds are not good. However, paying many thousands for courses is not likely to improve your odds more than if you pay a small monthly fee to learn the basics or learn form books and videos.
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....books and videos and your sim-training. I think it's the best way to learn as long as you trade that play money as if it were REAL money.
 
If there is some sort of trader college or graduate program (with some months online and may be a couple of weeks on site), that will actually help a trader become profitable over a period of 6 months to a year, it may be worth the many thousands.

A one week intensive is not worth so many thousands. jmho.

A program is "legit" doesn't mean that it isn't a rip-off!
 
YOU GUYS NEED TO REALLY STOP ACTING DUMB.

There is no "program" that you can buy, not matter the price, that will make you profitable. Those people that run educational courses do so to supplement their income because they obviously can't make money trading. Do you know how much time and energy it takes to run a website, promote your products, make me materials? Those "trader coaches" are scam artists, packaged slightly nicer than puresh!t.

You will only learn by trading (countless hours of screentime). THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS. Find a prop firm where you have ZERO financial risk and trade, trade, trade. If you have some capital that you are willing to lose (5K) find a retail broker prop firm and set up a deal where you can trade 100 - 300 lots and decent commissions ($5 for 1,000). Consider Interactive Brokers if you have $25,000.

Now you will lose that 5K initial contribution when you trade. If you break even gross, you will pay 5K in commissions. That plus more is your tuition. If you can't make money after 9 months or a 1 year, trading is not for you.

Stop thinking you can watch some fancy 14 hour seminar and become a good trader. The a$$holes who invested their time to make a 14 hour video are not profitable traders. If anything, they had a profitable run (like Nasdaq bubble) and now that they suck at trading they are making instructional videos.

Read classics on psychology (Mark Douglas), read Reminiscences of a Stock Operator and some other bibles. But these just provide a foundation and teach about discipline and etc. You will have to create YOUR OWN STRATEGY. That takes SCREEN TIME.

Good luck and stop wasting your time with this educational material garbage.
 
Quote from WinItAll:

That's a great comment. Not only is trading firm capital without a risk deposit legal, risk deposit and training fee are often the same thing with different coining of the phrase.

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, IF A FIRM REALLY BELIEVES IN THEIR TRAINING THEN IT SHOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM FOR THEM TO SHARE IN YOUR LOSSES. MOST LIKELY EVEN IF A FIRM ISN'T BACKING YOU THEY ARE SHARING IN SOME OF YOUR PROFITS. BUT IF THEIR PROGRAM IS GOOD ENOUGH TO CHARGE YOU A BULK SOME OF MONEY THEN WHY ISN'T IT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THEM TO INVEST THAT SAME MONEY IN THEIR OWN SYSTEM BY INVESTING IT IN THE TRADERS THEY TEACH. IF THE SYSTEM WORKS AND YOU ARE SHARING PROFITS THEN THEY SHOULD BE CONFIDENT THAT A GOOD ENOUGH PERCENTAGE OF THEIR GUYS/GIRLS WILL MAKE IT AND THE PROFIT SHARING WILL FAR EXCEED THE TRAINING FEE.

Granted making 1500 or 5000 or 12000, depending on what course you enroll in, is not that much money once you are trading and making a living. But it is alot of money for a kid out of college or if I was to start trading in my mid thirties with a wife and kid. Sometimes traders forget, including me, that when you are working a real job it might take 6 months or a Year to be able to support your family and pay your bills while putting away 5K. It's easy for an experienced trader to think of this money as nothing b/c in this job, once you put all of you skills together, for some people it's a good trade without alot of risk. However, this is and real estate speculation are probably the only jobs where you can actually lose money at work..... and many traders or aspiring traders forget this.
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These firms may be legit, it doesn't change the fact that most are pure scams in that they are not really standing behind those they trained.

If they really believe in their training, they would at least be willing to let their traders pay for the training as they learn and earn.

I don't think the $1500 intro training gets you a trading job these days. you have to pay for the 5k pro training in order to work for the firm.

In addition to the 5k initial fee, the trader will be asked to put up more capital soon enough.

Anyone actually recoup their 5k training fee and making a living trading for such a firm please speak up. I am waiting to hear form you.
 
Quote from hippietrader:

These firms may be legit, it doesn't change the fact that most are pure scams in that they are not really standing behind those they trained.

If they really believe in their training, they would at least be willing to let their traders pay for the training as they learn and earn.

I don't think the $1500 intro training gets you a trading job these days. you have to pay for the 5k pro training in order to work for the firm.

In addition to the 5k initial fee, the trader will be asked to put up more capital soon enough.

Anyone actually recoup their 5k training fee and making a living trading for such a firm please speak up. I am waiting to hear form you.
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I'm at my second firm where I did not pay a penny to trade (no training fee, no initial contribution, no financial risk whatsoever). I even get a base salary (just for living expenses) at the place I am now. I want to keep it private because I've only been here for a month.

Anyways, successful traders make A LOT of money. Firms that charge $1,500 in training fees or $5,000 initial contribution probably don't have good traders to begin with. It shows that they have little little faith in their "mentors" if they are not willing to risk 5K of their own money to train someone their strategy. What's $5,000 to good traders... that's a day of work? Firms that are unwilling to take that risk obviously don't have faith in their system.

You guys need to do some research and find firms that require zero financial risk. A lot of them are in Chicago. Be willing to venture outside stocks and into options too. It is more competitive, but for a reason... these are profitable firms from trading and not just from commissions.

If you guys have dreams of putting up $5,000 and becoming profitable at a leveraged retail broker prop firm, good luck to you. 1 in a 1000 will become a millionaire... 100 will be profitable (probably just gross and not net)... and the rest of you will have wasted 5,000K.

Go to a serious firm that accepts the risk of hiring you and not to some broker you just pay commissions too.
 
Quote from syswizard:

Why not NYC ?
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NYC is good too, but I found that most of the firms that don't require any initial contribution or bs training fees are located in Chicago. One reason for this is that Chicago does a lot of making markets in options business, so its a different game that requires different skills. It's somewhat more complicated than day trading stocks.

But NY has some great firms like Trillium, Citadel, Jane Street and T3 (there are others). T3 unfortunately requires a huge initial contribution, but I can testify that some of their guys make big money. The others don't ask for training or initial contributions, and some even pay a small base salary.
 
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Equity Trader (San Diego)

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Date: 2009-08-06, 8:41AM PDT
Reply to: job-xzgz5-1308900616@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

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Keystone Trading Group is actively seeking to expand its trading desk with experienced as well as with new trainees.

Experienced Traders:

For those experienced traders who can document a P and L statement that is at least Gross positive, we would be interested in discussing a partnership.

We will pass along to you our institutional rates of $1.25 per 1000 shares to you and will provide you with as much capital as you can prove you can handle.

New Traders (trainees)

We are seeking candidates that are highly competitive, with strong analytical and quantitative skills. These candidates should have a strong passion for the stock market and more importantly are looking to control their own destiny and their own success!

As proprietary trading firm Keystone Trading Group seeks partnerships with both new and experienced traders. Successful day trading requires mentoring, discipline, capital and a proven trading plan. Keystone Trading Group provides all of these key components for our day trading partners.

Keystone will be hosting a Webinar, Online, Live on Tuesday September 15th at 7pm est to discuss the trading opportunities that we are currently offering.

To RSVP for the event please go to http://www.keystonetradinggroup.com/concepts/upcomingevents.htm?prAffiliate=CraigsSanDiego



Location: San Diego
Compensation: 75-150k
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.



PostingID: 1308900616


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See....at least Keystone is recognizing experience traders with decent track records. That is a departure from their former practice of ignoring them.
Overall, this is a great deal ... IF you are a decent trader. Newbies: go somewhere else or "pay up" for the training first.
 
ALl i have to say is that a lot of firms who are not broker dealers are charging a training fees = ( Risk Deposit ) so that they can get around the sec
They have a upper hand now cause they make you feel they are the boss and they can fire you anytime they want
I guess till you blow their training fess $ amount \
And every one know trading business is not for every one
 
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