rs7, I am your big fan. Your threads are really amazing. I followed all of them and try to make up some of them I didnot follow. I hope that you can post more. Thanks very much.
Keeping it Simple
- Thread starter rs7
- Start date
Give me a week, maybe two, with a great trader. I don't want him/her to say anything, I don't want explanations - I just want to hang - believe me, I would come back twice the trader.
In fact, allow me to watch _ANY_ other profitable trader that has a different style than I do under the same conditions as above - I would come back a better trader.
nitro
Perhaps....But I highly doubt it. Because none of us are mind readers.
I watched a very successful trader try and have a friend of his sit next to him and let him know all his trades as he was doing them. Well the first year, the friend had an outstanding year. The second year, not so great, because the lead guy did not trade very often. When the lead guy was not around to follow, the friend still traded, but managed only modest success. But the market was still friendly. Then they had a personal falling out, and the friend moved into a different trading room. He failed miserably. And it wasn't for a lack of intelligence. There is no doubt the friend was a brighter guy. Much brighter, as a matter of fact. But the lead guy was just a better trader. More experience, and lots of instinct. And just a different type of person.
Chas, I assure you I only had one other alias (Menace) which I 'fessed up to. Some people think I may also be MrSubs' Mom...... but if this is the case, it isn't something that is in my RS7 brain. If this situation exists, it is only possible because of my extreme schizophrenia and severe multiple personality disorder. Nothing I am consciously aware of. Of course the things I am not consciously aware of cover an awful lot of ground.
It is 3:20 am. Woke up and couldn't fall back to sleep. The joys of insomnia for traders with overnight positions: THERE ARE NONE!
But I see Magna is on line. When do you sleep Magna? Or do you just not sign off? Or are you trying to figure out a way for that kid to make a million off his 5k so he can impress the ex-girlfriend with a new Porsche? (Revenge trading...always a good idea).
Peace, smooth sailing, calm waters, and a light breeze at your backs to all,
RS7well, my wife being out of town paid off. As I said, I took overnights long over the weekend just so I would have a reason to get up and out this morning. Instead of kicked out like usual when she is home.
Had IBM, TXN. MU, MSFT, and BRCD.
Got out of all of them too quickly. TXN was my biggest position, and my most difficult. Opened the strongest, went straight down, and I got out on the first pop positive. Now of course it is breaking higher. So again, my discipline ends up not helping me. But also, I never count on luck or getting bailed out with prayer.
Worst trade, MSFT. Got out against my rules. No legitimate reason. Never went against me. Best trade, IBM. Held through the dip only because I had a good mark, and the stock always needs to be given a little room based on price, volitility and strong upward momentum over the past 2 weeks.
Losing trade, BRCD...but at least I got out almost even. Good thing to, looking at it now. Of course it went up right after I bailed just to make me feel foolish. That is what the market does.
Don't usually talk about my specific trades, but someone asked, so there you go.
Flat now, going to gym.
Afternoon session: Hope to get my dip and be long if internals hold up. Not before 1:30. Even then, I will nibble and hope to build into larger positions by close. If I have a decent mark, I will keep some overnight. Because Wife still out of town!
RS7
Had IBM, TXN. MU, MSFT, and BRCD.
Got out of all of them too quickly. TXN was my biggest position, and my most difficult. Opened the strongest, went straight down, and I got out on the first pop positive. Now of course it is breaking higher. So again, my discipline ends up not helping me. But also, I never count on luck or getting bailed out with prayer.
Worst trade, MSFT. Got out against my rules. No legitimate reason. Never went against me. Best trade, IBM. Held through the dip only because I had a good mark, and the stock always needs to be given a little room based on price, volitility and strong upward momentum over the past 2 weeks.
Losing trade, BRCD...but at least I got out almost even. Good thing to, looking at it now. Of course it went up right after I bailed just to make me feel foolish. That is what the market does.
Don't usually talk about my specific trades, but someone asked, so there you go.
Flat now, going to gym.
Afternoon session: Hope to get my dip and be long if internals hold up. Not before 1:30. Even then, I will nibble and hope to build into larger positions by close. If I have a decent mark, I will keep some overnight. Because Wife still out of town!
RS7
Back from gym. Looking a lot like Arnold. (not)
Now where is Lundy now that things look to be possibly turning around (so far)?
MrSub is dragging a ball and chain. My wife has been saying that she's been doing that for years (nice way of refering to me).
Darkhorse, I need typing lessons. Do you take dictation? That would work beautifully for my purposes.
Publias, glad to see you posting heavily again. Good for keeping the fingers limber and other beneficial stuff too.
Now back to "simple trading". I think today I missed a great opportunity because I had unjustified overnights. Going back to how I said the best ways to trade opens a few pages back, this morning set up quite nicely. A small up open, a dip, and about 15-20 minutes of uncertaintly. Then an obvious upward bias. Should have just come in flat, waited, and started to buy strong stocks. But because I was watching what I already had, I was blinded to other opportunities. Oh well. that's what I get for having 3 plans instead of one. But overall, I truly believe that if you have just one plan (especially newer traders, or traders using their own hard earned money), and you wait for the market to come to you, you will reap the payoff for your patience.
For the millionth time, I will state again that improvising without a plan will kill your account. Doing nothing waiting for your "set up" will never hurt. And when the opportunities come, you will have the assets to take advantage.
Well, back to the office I go. Home for shower...clean and ready for round two.
Good luck and good trading to all, and assorted other fine wishes.
RS7
Now where is Lundy now that things look to be possibly turning around (so far)?
MrSub is dragging a ball and chain. My wife has been saying that she's been doing that for years (nice way of refering to me).
Darkhorse, I need typing lessons. Do you take dictation? That would work beautifully for my purposes.
Publias, glad to see you posting heavily again. Good for keeping the fingers limber and other beneficial stuff too.
Now back to "simple trading". I think today I missed a great opportunity because I had unjustified overnights. Going back to how I said the best ways to trade opens a few pages back, this morning set up quite nicely. A small up open, a dip, and about 15-20 minutes of uncertaintly. Then an obvious upward bias. Should have just come in flat, waited, and started to buy strong stocks. But because I was watching what I already had, I was blinded to other opportunities. Oh well. that's what I get for having 3 plans instead of one. But overall, I truly believe that if you have just one plan (especially newer traders, or traders using their own hard earned money), and you wait for the market to come to you, you will reap the payoff for your patience.
For the millionth time, I will state again that improvising without a plan will kill your account. Doing nothing waiting for your "set up" will never hurt. And when the opportunities come, you will have the assets to take advantage.
Well, back to the office I go. Home for shower...clean and ready for round two.
Good luck and good trading to all, and assorted other fine wishes.
RS7Well, I apologize for my last few posts. Somehow I got to talking about my trading, which was not my intent for this thread. If I wanted to do a journal, I would have gone that route.
But I got sidetracked by numerous specific questions, and I foolishly tried to address them. I don't think that I am truly qualified to teach anyone how to trade (in respect to specific techniques). But to my regret, I did address this and did post some of my "techniques". I think in retrospect it was a mistake.
Now what I AM qualified to talk about is mind set. I did this in the "successful trading" thread, and I think I pretty much touched on most of what I feel is required to have the right mind set. Which really is about having discipline, courage, accountability, responsibility, etc. Anyone interested can certainly go back and read what already has been said.
My intent in this thread was really to try and get across that each of us has, or will have, a style uniquely our own. That is something we develop over time. There are a lot of ways to "skin a cat", and no one way is better or worse than another. The only thing that matters is results.
Trading for pennies in a matter of seconds is fine. Trading for dollars and holding for hours (or days) is fine. Trading baskets of stocks, or single positions. Trading futures, options, spreads, pairs. Trading the open only, or the close only.....I could go on with this almost forever. Because we are all individuals and no two of us are exactly alike. And trading is like that too. No two traders will ever trade exactly alike. There are too many variables. And too many things to be attracted to. Or to be put off by.
So what do we all have in common? Well obviously, we want to make money. And also, we all have the desire to make something out of essentially nothing. We provide no goods, and no services. We have no inventory to deplete or renew. We are not really in a seasonal industry, and we have no limitations on what we can make. And I think this last thing is the big attraction. Where else can someone even say (as we have seen) that they want to take 5k and turn it into (1000k?). Well when I first saw that, I presumed it meant $1,000,000. But apparently it meant only 100K. (I always thought 1000 x 1000 = 1mm) But regardless, it was about making a lot from a little.
Now what is interesting is that however unlikely this is to happen in the allotted 18 months, no one said that beyond doubt it is "impossible". And it isn't. Sure, it's highly unlikely. So is winning the lottery. But we have to agree that someone working for an hourly wage knows that they will not make 1mm in 18 months. So who can make this kind of money?
Athletes...yes, if you are born with special abilities. But none of us here have those abilities (just guessing that Tiger and A-Rod and their ilk are not ET guys). Sales people can make that kind of money. But so few and so far between. And not likely in 18 months, or even 18 years. corporate executives? Yup, but again, they work their way up, and it is unlikely to happen in 18 months (if they stay within the law). Brings us to criminals. Yes, they can do it. But as much fun as it looks like in the movies, I doubt many of us have the makeup to be successful criminals. That too is almost an unlearnable thing. You have it or you don't. Or you are so desperate that you are off the edges of the bell curve and more than likely totally insane. Artists (performing and otherwise) can do it. But like athletes,this is talent that you need to be born with. And it even if you are born with it, it takes a huge degree of luck.
So again, I could speculate and go on about all the different ways to "get rich quick". And the end result is the chances are exceedingly slim. Invent something barnacles won't cling to for the bottom of ships, and there you go. Or invent anything that we haven't thought about. Be Thomas Edison. Not so easy though.
But trading.....here we have an opportunity in which we all start off on a somewhat level playing field. You don't need to be gifted to be a good trader. You can learn. And you can excel. It takes only self motivation, huge desire, and at least normal intelligence. I said sometime back awhile that I only knew one trader that was absolutely born to trade. He could tell you every single trade he ever made. I am sure there are others like him. But you don't need a photographic memory, and you don't need to be a mathematical genius. Darkhorse, in his usual insightful way, said (as did others) that you can't be taught to be Michael Jordan. And that's true. There is nothing in the world that can get me to dunk a basketball. Not instruction, not practice, not anything.
But trading........I think successful trading is not only attainable, I truly think it is SIMPLE. Start small, see what works FOR YOU, and get proficient at it. This means doing the same thing over and over until it is second nature. Know that losing is part of trading. Know that your plan will backfire. Know that you will be frustrated when you lose and it turns out you could have made if you held longer. Same when you make, and it turns out you could have made even more. KNOW with absolute certainty that virtually no trade will be perfect. You will not buy at the low or sell at the high. Understand that lots of little gains add up. Understand that you don't need ANY big gains. Consistency counts. This is not a profession where you want to be a Mark McGuire. You want to be a Tony Gwynn. And sometimes when you are trying to just get on base, you will connect for a home run. And this is as it should be, because with enough "at bats", you are going to get plunked in the head by a fastball once in a while. But the occasional home runs will offset the occasional disasters. They are not what it is about. They just happen, and we have no control over these aberrations.
With time and repetition we gain experience. With experience we gain confidence. Put confidence together with discipline and competence (another dividend of repetition), and you have the foundation for success. I sincerely believe that almost anyone who has the patience can develop into a great trader. The hard part is having the patience. It will rarely come to you in 18 months. It is important to have realistic goals, and a realistic amount of time to devote to your development. If it takes 3 or 4 years, which is typical for most traders to be able to depend on themselves for a livable income, then have a way of sustaining yourself for that amount of time. Trading can be done (and therefore learned) in only a few hours a day. There is time to have another job. Time to do whatever it takes to survive. The one sure route to failure is to put pressure on yourself to make enough money from trading when you are not truly prepared. And being prepared means being experienced. And it takes time. Having a few good days, or weeks, or even months does not assure you that you are really ready to survive financially as a trader.
Know what you need to live on. Assume you will not make anything from trading. If you can achieve this, you are most of the way there. Because the ability to trade will come. But not if the pressure is too great. The pressure will only make you press at the exact wrong times. The freedom to trade only when you know it is the right time is what makes trading simple. And more and more opportunities arise as you learn to recognize them. But it takes time. And time is the key.
Sorry this is so wordy. I hope I have not caused you all to doze off. But as Publias would say, "this is my truth". And now I have shared this with you, and believe me, it is true.
RS7
But I got sidetracked by numerous specific questions, and I foolishly tried to address them. I don't think that I am truly qualified to teach anyone how to trade (in respect to specific techniques). But to my regret, I did address this and did post some of my "techniques". I think in retrospect it was a mistake.
Now what I AM qualified to talk about is mind set. I did this in the "successful trading" thread, and I think I pretty much touched on most of what I feel is required to have the right mind set. Which really is about having discipline, courage, accountability, responsibility, etc. Anyone interested can certainly go back and read what already has been said.
My intent in this thread was really to try and get across that each of us has, or will have, a style uniquely our own. That is something we develop over time. There are a lot of ways to "skin a cat", and no one way is better or worse than another. The only thing that matters is results.
Trading for pennies in a matter of seconds is fine. Trading for dollars and holding for hours (or days) is fine. Trading baskets of stocks, or single positions. Trading futures, options, spreads, pairs. Trading the open only, or the close only.....I could go on with this almost forever. Because we are all individuals and no two of us are exactly alike. And trading is like that too. No two traders will ever trade exactly alike. There are too many variables. And too many things to be attracted to. Or to be put off by.
So what do we all have in common? Well obviously, we want to make money. And also, we all have the desire to make something out of essentially nothing. We provide no goods, and no services. We have no inventory to deplete or renew. We are not really in a seasonal industry, and we have no limitations on what we can make. And I think this last thing is the big attraction. Where else can someone even say (as we have seen) that they want to take 5k and turn it into (1000k?). Well when I first saw that, I presumed it meant $1,000,000. But apparently it meant only 100K. (I always thought 1000 x 1000 = 1mm) But regardless, it was about making a lot from a little.
Now what is interesting is that however unlikely this is to happen in the allotted 18 months, no one said that beyond doubt it is "impossible". And it isn't. Sure, it's highly unlikely. So is winning the lottery. But we have to agree that someone working for an hourly wage knows that they will not make 1mm in 18 months. So who can make this kind of money?
Athletes...yes, if you are born with special abilities. But none of us here have those abilities (just guessing that Tiger and A-Rod and their ilk are not ET guys). Sales people can make that kind of money. But so few and so far between. And not likely in 18 months, or even 18 years. corporate executives? Yup, but again, they work their way up, and it is unlikely to happen in 18 months (if they stay within the law). Brings us to criminals. Yes, they can do it. But as much fun as it looks like in the movies, I doubt many of us have the makeup to be successful criminals. That too is almost an unlearnable thing. You have it or you don't. Or you are so desperate that you are off the edges of the bell curve and more than likely totally insane. Artists (performing and otherwise) can do it. But like athletes,this is talent that you need to be born with. And it even if you are born with it, it takes a huge degree of luck.
So again, I could speculate and go on about all the different ways to "get rich quick". And the end result is the chances are exceedingly slim. Invent something barnacles won't cling to for the bottom of ships, and there you go. Or invent anything that we haven't thought about. Be Thomas Edison. Not so easy though.
But trading.....here we have an opportunity in which we all start off on a somewhat level playing field. You don't need to be gifted to be a good trader. You can learn. And you can excel. It takes only self motivation, huge desire, and at least normal intelligence. I said sometime back awhile that I only knew one trader that was absolutely born to trade. He could tell you every single trade he ever made. I am sure there are others like him. But you don't need a photographic memory, and you don't need to be a mathematical genius. Darkhorse, in his usual insightful way, said (as did others) that you can't be taught to be Michael Jordan. And that's true. There is nothing in the world that can get me to dunk a basketball. Not instruction, not practice, not anything.
But trading........I think successful trading is not only attainable, I truly think it is SIMPLE. Start small, see what works FOR YOU, and get proficient at it. This means doing the same thing over and over until it is second nature. Know that losing is part of trading. Know that your plan will backfire. Know that you will be frustrated when you lose and it turns out you could have made if you held longer. Same when you make, and it turns out you could have made even more. KNOW with absolute certainty that virtually no trade will be perfect. You will not buy at the low or sell at the high. Understand that lots of little gains add up. Understand that you don't need ANY big gains. Consistency counts. This is not a profession where you want to be a Mark McGuire. You want to be a Tony Gwynn. And sometimes when you are trying to just get on base, you will connect for a home run. And this is as it should be, because with enough "at bats", you are going to get plunked in the head by a fastball once in a while. But the occasional home runs will offset the occasional disasters. They are not what it is about. They just happen, and we have no control over these aberrations.
With time and repetition we gain experience. With experience we gain confidence. Put confidence together with discipline and competence (another dividend of repetition), and you have the foundation for success. I sincerely believe that almost anyone who has the patience can develop into a great trader. The hard part is having the patience. It will rarely come to you in 18 months. It is important to have realistic goals, and a realistic amount of time to devote to your development. If it takes 3 or 4 years, which is typical for most traders to be able to depend on themselves for a livable income, then have a way of sustaining yourself for that amount of time. Trading can be done (and therefore learned) in only a few hours a day. There is time to have another job. Time to do whatever it takes to survive. The one sure route to failure is to put pressure on yourself to make enough money from trading when you are not truly prepared. And being prepared means being experienced. And it takes time. Having a few good days, or weeks, or even months does not assure you that you are really ready to survive financially as a trader.
Know what you need to live on. Assume you will not make anything from trading. If you can achieve this, you are most of the way there. Because the ability to trade will come. But not if the pressure is too great. The pressure will only make you press at the exact wrong times. The freedom to trade only when you know it is the right time is what makes trading simple. And more and more opportunities arise as you learn to recognize them. But it takes time. And time is the key.
Sorry this is so wordy. I hope I have not caused you all to doze off. But as Publias would say, "this is my truth". And now I have shared this with you, and believe me, it is true.
RS7
You know what? I just thought of another very appropriate analogy.
We can watch Michael Jordan dunk a basketball, but most of us will never be able to do it. It doesn't look hard, but it is a feat accomplished only by those born with the ability to do it.
Now we can also watch someone juggle. (chainsaws if you are Darkhorse). Now juggling 3 of anything LOOKS difficult. And if you try to do it the first time, you will think "well sure it looks difficult, because it's impossible". But the reality is, just about anyone can juggle. I could teach anyone at all the steps that if practiced will enable them to juggle 3 balls (or even chainsaws). But I can only give them the routine. The practice they have to do without me. And given time, I believe virtually anyone can juggle. And after that first time that they keep the 3 (chainsaws, balls, beanbags, etc.) going for a few moments, well in time, it will become effortless. And what looks so difficult, really is quite easy. I think trading one strategy is similar. It is just repetition.
Now juggling more than 3 items...well that becomes a thousand times more difficult. So unless there is some compelling reason to have to be able to juggle 5 chainsaws, why not stick with 3 until you can do it in your sleep? Why make things more complicated than they need to be??
Just a thought,
RS7