Justice Alito exposes the hypocrisy of liberal double-standards

Its hard to imagine that some lawyer this useless managed to get a case all the way to the supreme court, Alito just decimated him, like how do you get that far on a case and not have an answer for such an obvious question, "Who is going to impose the standards"

Justice Alito exposes the hypocrisy of liberal double-standards
http://blog.acton.org/archives/1005...he-hypocrisy-of-liberal-double-standards.html

You probably haven’t even heard about it, but yesterday there was an exchange in the Supreme Court that future generations will regard as one of the most significant revelations of our political era.

The case of Minnesota Voters Alliance v. Mansky concerns a Minnesota statute that broadly bans all political apparel at the polling place. When Andrew Cilek went to vote in 2010, he wore a shirt bearing the image of the “Don’t Tread on Me” flag and a button that read “Please I.D. Me.” The poll worker asked him to remove the shirt and button because it supposedly violated the state law.

Cilek filed a lawsuit opposing the regulation as an infringement on his First Amendment right to political expression. He also noted that the standard for what is acceptable is arbitrary and the enforcement itself could be politicized since the polling workers are chosen by local political parties.

In the oral arguments, Justice Alito agreed that the law does seem arbitrary and observed that “so many things have political connotations, and the connotations are in the eye of the beholder.” How could any poll worker, he asked, be even-handed in enforcing the regulation?

Daniel Rogan, who defended the statute for the state before the Court, responded that the political speech being conveyed by the wearer had to be “understood as relating to electoral choices and it has to be well-known.”

Alito said “that makes it worse” since the poll worker applying the “reasonable person” standard has to not only recognize the clothing is political speech but well known political speech.

Rogan answered that what the standard meant was it would have to be something a reasonable person would consider “clearly political” and “something that’s going to be reasonably understood by voters in the polling place.” What followed was a line of questioning by Judge Alito that will go down in the history books as a prime example of liberal cluelessness and hypocrisy.

The exchange has to be seen in full to appreciate the devastating effect, so I’ll reprint each part and note which examples of clothing Rogan considers “political” and what he views as “not political”:

JUSTICE ALITO: How about a shirt with a rainbow flag? Would that be permitted?

MR. ROGAN: A shirt with a rainbow flag? No, it would — yes, it would be — it would be permitted unless there was — unless there was an issue on the ballot that — that related somehow to — to gay rights.


Rogan’s conclusion:
A symbol for a liberal cause (gay rights) is not political (unless there is something directly related to the issue on the ballot), and thus would be allowed.

JUSTICE ALITO: How about a shirt that says “Parkland Strong”?

ROGAN: No, that would – that would be — that would be allowed. I think - I think, Your Honor -

JUSTICE ALITO: Even though gun control would very likely be an issue?

[Rogan hems and haws for a few moments while Alito pins him down]

ROGAN: I — I think — I think today that I — that would be — if — if that was in Minnesota, and it was “Parkland Strong,” I — I would say that that would be allowed in, that there’s not -


Rogan’s conclusion:
A symbol for a liberal cause (gun control) is not political, and thus would be allowed.

JUSTICE ALITO: Okay. How about an NRA shirt?

ROGAN: An NRA shirt? Today, in Minnesota, no, it would not, Your Honor. I think that that’s a clear indication — and I think what you’re getting at, Your Honor -


Rogan’s conclusion: A symbol for a conservative cause (gun rights) would be political, and thus not allowed.

JUSTICE ALITO: How about a shirt with the text of the Second Amendment?

ROGAN: Your Honor, I — I – I think that that could be viewed as political, that that — that would be — that would be –


Rogan’s conclusion: The text of an Amendment to the U.S. Constitution would be considered political because it is primarily supported by conservatives, and thus not allowed.

JUSTICE ALITO: How about the First Amendment?

ROGAN: No, Your Honor, I don’t -I don’t think the First Amendment. And, Your Honor, I -

CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: No — no what, that it would be covered or wouldn’t be allowed?

ROGAN: It would be allowed.


Rogan’s conclusion: The text of an Amendment to the U.S. Constitution would not be considered political because it’s supported by people other than just conservatives, and thus would be allowed.

ALITO: . . . How about a Colin Kaepernick jersey?

ROGAN: No, Your Honor, I don’t think that that would be under — under our statute. And I think -


Rogan’s conclusion: The jersey of a football player best known for his left-leaning political activism with the Black Lives Matter movement would not be political, and thus would be allowed.

JUSTICE ALITO: How about “All Lives Matter”?

ROGAN: That could be, Your Honor, that could be — that could be perceived as political.


Rogan’s conclusion: Text considered to be in opposition to the Black Lives Matter movement would be considered political, and thus not allowed.

JUSTICE ALITO: How about an “I Miss Bill” shirt?

ROGAN: I’m sorry, Your Honor? I didn’t -

JUSTICE ALITO: “I Miss Bill,” or to make it bipartisan, a “Reagan/Bush ’84” shirt?

ROGAN: Yes, Your Honor, I believe that that’s political.


Rogan’s conclusion: Wearing clothes referring to politicians who have been out of office for decades is political, and thus not allowed.

I don’t know much about Mr. Rogan, but I suspect that most people would consider him to be a reasonable person. Yet when asked to apply the “reasonable observer” standard, Rogan consistently considered views on the left to be “non-political” and views on the right to be “political.”

How could such a reasonable person be so clueless? The late novelist David Foster Wallace tells an old joke about fish and water that can help us see the problem:

“There are these two young fish swimming along and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says “Morning, boys. How’s the water?” And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes “What the hell is water?”

There’s also an old saying that fish are the last to discover water. Something similar could be said about liberals and their left-leaning bias. They are the last to discover political bias because they assume what they believe about the world is the standard by which all other views must judged. While other people are being “political” they are merely being “reasonable.”

Christians should consider what it means for us to trust our most sacred rights—especially our rights to speech and religious freedom—to such “reasonable observers.”
 
LOL, before seeing anyones post i got three questions into that and thought the same thing, how could a lawyer this stupid manage to get himself all the way to a supreme court trial.

I thought for sure this was fake.
How could an attorney smart enough to argue in front of the US Supreme Court ... argue so poorly. I thought his answers were a joke... I promise. I just did a google search and did not stop until I read it in the new york times. I was expecting this was a viral email and would be snopesed. .

I must apologize to smart liberals.
I really thought they knew they were full of shit but just choosing to the follow the party line. I therefore thought they had zero integrity.

I now realize after reading this... they many may have no idea how blind they are to reality... is it possible some of the trolls here just don't see and think in terms of facts and reality?

I wonder if the lefties don't even see essentially what a moron that attorney was. He was so left and blind as he was trying to honestly answer the questions... he was failing as an attorney.
 
I don't know the answer but I suspect what happened is this is an ambitious liberal who would prefer to lose a Supreme Court case than to say something un PC. If he loses the case, no big deal, but when he runs for governor or whatever, an answer that is unPC could come back to haunt him.

Yep.

It is a humbling, scary world out there these days though when it comes to American law.

Viewers should be forewarned that just because this guy is clueless and hapless in functioning before the Supreme Court (he is a local county DA in Minnesota who followed the case up and was never replaced by someone more experienced when it rose up on appeal and beyond his pay grade ) does not mean that he will not win and end out with the last laugh.

After all, he won at the District Court and at the Appeals Court and most of us can name at least three Supreme Court Justices who decided how they will vote before the case even reached them.

It is scary to think how he could have made it that far without being replaced. Even scarier, is the question of how that case made it that far. Must be some real loons on the district and appeals court.
 
I don't even know which side should win. I would have to read more about the case to have an opinion...

But I suspect once again its a Sup Ct case in which we constitutional rights competing against each. And the solution will have to be a whose ox gets gored type soltion.

the right to vote free of intimidation vs free speech.
So how do you create a bright line which is not subjective?

The point is even a lefty attorney could have answered Alito's questions in a much better way.
a. take a radical approach... your honor I am an attorney with a point of view and I represent people who desire _________________ my answers will not be an exemplar of a reasonable person working at poll who is given training.

b. if you know you are going to lose on the slippery slope... you do you don't just let the judge walk you down the slope. You have a solution or you point out the problem and agree.
That is basic lawyering you learn in moot court or during you few arguments in front of the law and motions judge.

that is why I am not sure that this guy just was not a blind lefty thinking he was doing a good job answer the questions honestly.



Yep.

It is a humbling, scary world out there these days though when it comes to American law.

Viewers should be forewarned that just because this guy is clueless and hapless in functioning before the Supreme Court (he is a local county DA in Minnesota who followed the case up and was never replaced by someone more experienced when it rose up on appeal and beyond his pay grade ) does not mean that he will not win and end out with the last laugh.

After all, he won at the District Court and at the Appeals Court and most of us can name at least three Supreme Court Justices who decided how they will vote before the case even reached them.

It is scary to think how he could have made it that far without being replaced. Even scarier, is the question of how that case made it that far. Must be some real loons on the district and appeals court.
 
I have to clean that up...



I don't even know which side should win. I would have to read more about the case in order to have an opinion.

But, I suspect once again its a Sup Ct case in which our constitutional rights are competing against each. The solution will be a "whose ox gets gored" type solution.

The right to vote free of intimidation vs free speech.
So how do you create a bright line test which is not subjective?

The point is even a lefty attorney could have answered Alito's questions in a much better way.

a. take a radical approach... your honor I am an attorney with a point of view and I represent people who desire _________________ my answers will not be an exemplar of a reasonable person working at poll who is given training.

b. if you know you are going to lose on the slippery slope... you do you don't just let the judge walk you down the slope. You acknowledge the existence of the slope and state that when 2 important rights collide you may have to craft a solution which calls for guided subjectivity.

3. you present a a solid solution.

That is basic lawyering. You learn how to respond to this type of questioning in in moot court or during you few few arguments you make in front of the law and motions judge.

that is why I am not sure that this guy just was not a blind lefty thinking he was doing a good job answer the questions honestly.[/QUOTE]
 
Its hard to imagine that some lawyer this useless managed to get a case all the way to the supreme court, Alito just decimated him, like how do you get that far on a case and not have an answer for such an obvious question, "Who is going to impose the standards"

To be fair, some lawyers will take your money and sue, no matter how indefensible the position. I've stopped caring about my reputation in my crappy job, I'm sure there are lawyers in the same boat.
 
To be fair, some lawyers will take your money and sue, no matter how indefensible the position. I've stopped caring about my reputation in my crappy job, I'm sure there are lawyers in the same boat.

Oh, I don't think this guy has done anything sleazy- he just is not the right guy for a supreme court case.

He is on government salary and the people of Minnesota passed a law that has merits on both sides and they sent him out to defend the law and he went out and did it. That's what he is paid to do and unless a true matter of conscience arises, the state's attorneys should be representing the state as requested.

As a salaried county attorney he would not be making anymore doing this than by trying drunk driving cases at home and going to Arby's at lunchtime.

And as I said, he won in district court, and at the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals, so who am I to say that their decision to go with him before the Court was ill-advised. Maybe they didn't want to put up several hundred thousand for a DC firm but didn't want to let the case just go either so they sent their local guy to at least defend it as best he could. That's their choice.

Full disclosure though: I don't see that case as being all that significant either way. There are plenty of cases that have true national and civil rights significance in which case other states and parties have a clear interest in seeing that the have the best representation before the court- so I would have a different view there. This case leaves me kind of flaccid though when I reflect on the hundreds/thousands of other cases that will not be heard because they can only hear a very small portion of the cases on appeal up at that level.
 
Conservatism is illogical and based on emotion. Not quite a mental disease but truly a cognitive flaw.

Just different emotions.

Easier to read version: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130213173131.htm

Paper:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0052970#s2

The US is basically nuts right now with this liberal vs conservative nonsense. You never see this kind of conversation in Canada, there is no attempt to categorize people by their political beliefs and in particular these polarizing "us vs them" talking points.
 
The US is basically nuts right now with this liberal vs conservative nonsense. You never see this kind of conversation in Canada, there is no attempt to categorize people by their political beliefs and in particular these polarizing "us vs them" talking points.
Welcome to identity politics.
 
The US is basically nuts right now with this liberal vs conservative nonsense. You never see this kind of conversation in Canada, there is no attempt to categorize people by their political beliefs and in particular these polarizing "us vs them" talking points.


That's what it is like when you live in a country like Canada that lacks diversity.

Have the French struggled with right versus left conflict of late? I think maybe.

How bout the Brits. Any conflict or right versus left dialogue going on there of late with the migrant and Brexit issues? I think maybe.

How bout Germany dealing with the migrant issues and trying to keep the far right contained?

And so on.

It's part of the ebb and flow that goes with countries that have diversity. You are a faux Canadian who is not familiar with Canadian history. If you had been there during the Quebec Separatist Movement and the Front Liberation de Quebec then you might have revise your statement about what you "never"hear or see in Canada or about "us and them" talk. Just as a little lesson, you currently have a Prime Minister named Justin Trudeau, and his father, Pierre, was also Prime Minister. Study up about the time he had the military roll out the tanks in Montreal to put down the separatists and tell me if you think that was "us and them" talk and behavior.

Always interesting to see someone do nothing but criticize Americans but is too embarrassed by the country he is originally from to state what that is. You actually don't have the demeanor of a Canadian either. Canadians like to talk endlessly about how they are superior to Americans but it does not have the venomous undertones that you have. Try assimilating a little if you are in Canada.
 
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