Just who are the bad guys in the polygamy case?

Quote from Yours truly,:

Statutory rape is predicated on the supposed fact that underage women do not have the wisdom or experience to make this choice.

The clear implication from your post is that this implication is true in this religious compound, but not in the inner cities of our country. That the inner city girls have all made this choice uncoerced. That is contradicted by the plain definition of statutory rape.

So do you support taking millions of children away from their parents in inner cities?

No I do not support inner city girls being taken from their parents because they may have made a bad choice becasue of their lack of wisdom and expierence. What happens when an underage girl starts to have sex because she is naturally curious, is she either has been educated beforehand about protection from disease and pregnancy and does take precautions if she chooses to not listen to her parents and expierement, or she chooses to throw caution to the wind and maybe becomes pregnant or contracts a disease, or if she is lucky those possibilities won't happen to her. But our society has given those girls a window of opportunity for an education, the right to choose when she wants to marry, and if she wants to marry, and to who she wants to marry. The polygamist women are born and bred for one purpose..to be the young sexual partners of older men and to bear their children. She is not taught as far as we know at this point that there are choices in life, and that she does not have to have someone else choose who she will have sex with, who she will marry, and when she will have children. All these women know is what they were bred for, they were never given a choice...of course not, that would ruin the whole scheme of bariety of young sex partners for old men.
Of course we have many very wealthy men who marry much younger women (but of legal age) So when a 19 year old girl marrys a 50 year old wealthy man because she chooses to marry for money, well then thats her choice, wether I think its right or wrong does not matter. What matters is she chose her path. And if she decides down the road she has made a bad choice, than once again she has the freedom to change her situation if she chooses.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

I don't want to get too far out on the limb here

Too late, in my view.

The fact that you keep saying 'you have no evidence' means that you're willfully ignoring the facts. In case you don't know see it, that type of thing is the absolute hallmark of the PC knuckleheads you despise. There's plenty of evidence that crimes have been and are being committed. I agree with you that there have been mistakes made in the prosecution of the criminals, but to say 'This is all crap and there are a lot of child rapists in prison because of false testimony' is useless and wrongheaded. IMO.
 
Quote from traderNik:

Too late, in my view.

The fact that you keep saying 'you have no evidence' means that you're willfully ignoring the facts. In case you don't know see it, that type of thing is the absolute hallmark of the PC knuckleheads you despise. There's plenty of evidence that crimes have been and are being committed. I agree with you that there have been mistakes made in the prosecution of the criminals, but to say 'This is all crap and there are a lot of child rapists in prison because of false testimony' is useless and wrongheaded. IMO.

Do you deny that innocent poeple have been sent to prison on bogus child molestation charges? Janet Reno made her reputation in Florida by sending some poor innocent guy to prison on made up charges. There were scores of cases in a small town in Washington state. There were the infamous daycare center cases, where children came up with fantastic stories that clearly could not have happened but people were sent to prison anyway. I am as concerned as anyone else about protecting children, but to suggest that there have not been horrible excesses is to deny reality.

As for this case, all I am saying is I haven't seen any real evidence. I have heard a lot of breathless speculation about old men and young girls, but I haven't heard one of the women complain and I haven't seen one piece of evidence that anyone was coerced, etc. That's not to say that such evidence doesn't exist, but the it's not enough to say, well these women were brainwashed and don't know what they're doing. That's wanting to have it both ways. If someone says they were abused, you accept it without quesiton. If they say they weren't, then they were brainwashed.

I am skeptical anytime I see a state-organized media circus like we had here. It reminded me all too much of Waco.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Do you deny that innocent poeple have been sent to prison on bogus child molestation charges? Janet Reno made her reputation in Florida by sending some poor innocent guy to prison on made up charges. There were scores of cases in a small town in Washington state. There were the infamous daycare center cases, where children came up with fantastic stories that clearly could not have happened but people were sent to prison anyway. I am as concerned as anyone else about protecting children, but to suggest that there have not been horrible excesses is to deny reality.

As for this case, all I am saying is I haven't seen any real evidence. I have heard a lot of breathless speculation about old men and young girls, but I haven't heard one of the women complain and I haven't seen one piece of evidence that anyone was coerced, etc. That's not to say that such evidence doesn't exist, bSkip navigat


People
Woman describes eescapef from polygamy
She left the same sect that 534 women, children were freed from in Texas
Video





Video

Over 500 taken from Texas compound
April 8: Authorities remove more than 500 women and children from the Texas compound of a polygamist sect. NBC's Don Teague reports.
Today show

By Mike Celizic
TODAYShow.com contributor
updated 11:25 a.m. ET, Tues., April. 8, 2008
A polygamous community in Texas that follows the teaching of The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints practices pedophilia, torture and child abuse under the guise of a religion, according to a woman who escaped the sect with her eight children five years ago.

gI think itfs a form of pedophilia hiding behind a religion as a protection,h Carolyn Jessop told TODAYfs Matt Lauer from Salt Lake City on Tuesday. gTherefs just a desire to control and manipulate and torture people, and religion is just used as the cover.h

The sect Jessop escaped is the same one in Eldorado, Texas, that was raided on Monday by state police after a 16-year-old girl called authorities to report that she was being abused. The girl reported that other girls as young as 14 were being forced into plural marriages with much older men.

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Police removed 401 children and 133 women from the compound on warrants issued by a judge, who deemed them to be under imminent danger of physical abuse.

Jessop said it took enormous courage for the girl to call police, who still arenft sure if she is among those removed from the compound.

gIt would take courage thatfs even beyond what I could comprehend,h she told Lauer. gShe could not run the risk of being caught. She would have just to have gotten to the point where she would rather be dead than to continue living the way she was living. It would have had to have been that extreme for her, because those are literally some of the risks she was taking.h



When Jessop was a member of the sect, it was centered in Colorado City, Ariz., on the Utah border. The 1,700-acre Texas compound was built after she left. The sectfs leader, Warren Jeffs, was sentenced to 10 years in prison last September after being found guilty of two counts of first-degree accomplice rape for sanctioning the forced marriage of a 14-year-old girl to her 19-year-old cousin.

The 40-year-old Jessop was 18 when she was forced to marry Merril Jessop, who is said to have taken over leadership of the sect when Jeffs went to prison. Merril Jessop was 50 at the time of the marriage and had three other wives. She said from what she has heard and read, the sect has become even more restrictive since moving to Texas.

She has written a book about her experience entitled gEscape,h and in it, she talks about being totally cut off from the world and not being allowed to watch television or read newspapers or magazines.

gEverything you did was monitored and controlled and everybody reported on everyone else,h she said. gIt was a police state. You were not allowed to make decisions in your life. I had no power over my life or the lives of my children. It was a terrible way to live.h

The alleged control began in infancy.

gThe method he would use with infants was a form of water torture,h Jessop said of her former husband. gHe would spank the baby until it was screaming out of control, and then he would hold the baby faceup under a tap of running water so it couldnft breathe. He would do this repeatedly. Sometimes, it would go on for an hour, until the baby was so exhausted it couldnft cry anymore. This method he called ebreaking them.fh

To a child, the abuse becomes normal, she said, and resistance becomes unthinkable to most. gWith this level of mind control, itfs something youfre born into and itfs generational. The babies born into this, they donft stand a chance from the beginning,h she said.

What prompted her to leave was what she saw as a threat to her daughter.

gIt was getting worse every year,h she said of the level of control and abuse. gThatfs one of the things for me where I felt so urgent to get out was that my daughter was turning 14, and Warren was resetting the marrying age at that point to 14. This was in 2003.h

She said her husband controlled his wives through their children. gThe way he controlled me was by being violent to my children,h she told Lauer. gIf I did something that he didnft like, my children paid, and they paid a big price. He would hurt them. If he would have been hurting me, I probably would not have conformed. But when you go after a womanfs child, thatfs one thing that will put a woman on her knees quickly.h

The fundamentalist group claims to hold to the original teachings of Joseph Smith, who founded the Mormon religion in rural upstate New York in 1830. It is not recognized by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which renounced plural marriage in 1904 under pressure from the federal government.

There are a number of fundamentalist branches with compounds in Utah, Arizona, Idaho, Mexico and Texas, according to Jon Krakauerfs book, gUnder the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith.h






Rulon Jeffs founded the sect that Jessop belonged to and built his original compound in Colorado City, Ariz., on the Utah border. On his death, his son, Warren Jeffs, assumed primacy, along with the title of gPresident and Prophet and Revelatorh and the absolute authority that came with the position.

Jeffs was on the FBIfs 10 Most Wanted list when he was captured in August 2006 while driving through Nevada in a Cadillac Escalade. With him were one of his wives and his brother. Police said Jeffs had four computers, 16 cell phones, various disguises and $55,000 in cash.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Do you deny that innocent poeple have been sent to prison on bogus child molestation charges?
Jesus Christ, what in the hell does that have to do with this?? Give your head a shake.

The leader of this cult has already been charged with multiple counts of abetting the rape of a minor. He is charged with and will be convicted of raping a minor. His followers have been convicted of conspiracy to rape a minor. Breakaway sects are under suspicion of importing minor girls for the purpose of illegal marriage and impregnation. See above, multiple escapees from these prison/cult camps have reported that they themselves and other underage girls are being forcibly 'married' into polygamous families for the purpose of insemination.

What the fuck is the matter with you, man? Why the fuck don't you stick to your premise, which is that this raid has been botched, without bringing up the idea that 'child molesters are imprisoned illegally'?

These posts show there is zero difference between you and the PC Police you love to vilify. You're doing exactly what they do - spraying absurd accusations left and right in the hope that you can deflect attention from the real issue.

Exactly, 100% the same tactics as those you're always running down. Pathetic.
 
I thought that I read yesterday that the men were still at the compound and early on had offered to leave for questioning instead of letting the children be abducted by the state, but the government refused to do things the easy, proper way.

The men are supposed to be the suspects. Are the men in custody or did the government want the children evacuated so they could hopefully have a shoot-out with the men so as not to look bad for killing all the children like at Waco? It's been 15 years since Waco, seems like I remember it stated that they could have arrested Koresh in town while he made his usual errands. More funner to put on a big killin'. We are bored. Let's see some action.

Sounds like the children are being treated like criminals, whereas the suspects are still living comfortably at home. The children have become property of the government. I wonder what they will use them for? Politically? Ha, ha, abused again.

Sounds like the mothers are supposed to be innocent or even may be victims, but the mothers will have to fight the government to get their children back.
 
The children are the key to this investigation and prime target to protect. That's because they are the ones with all the information, in their minds and/or bodies, and they are the ones at greatest risk at the hands of the cult's adults. Therefore, they had to be secured first.
 
Gotta love this. A bunch of religious freaks form a cult and brainwash kids whilst breaking the law, and ETers first reaction is to come to the defence of the whack jobs?

Only in America (and the Islamic world).
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Dozens of federal agencies and every two bit police force now have their own SWAT teams, all pumped up and ready to go. It is a huge potential threat to our liberties.

How else are they going to enforce the law against a heavily armed populace? It's a simple arms race.
 
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