Just a kid looking for advice

A word of advice. Nothing you learned in college, your standing regarding graduation or how many brownie points you got in school or hoe many frat parties you attended will make a hill of beans when it comes to making money trading.

Either you have it or you do not. So make sure you have a backup plan. Not everyone with superbowl dreams even make it to the NFL.

A better advice is get a Job working somewhere that offers exposure to all sides of the business from being the coffee fetcher, the runner, the back office then front office then the desk side etc.

You need to get exposure to people and the whole ball of wax, make connections as well and move up.

Just reading some books and trying to earn a living trading your undercapitalized portfolio in your parents basement is not gonna cut it.

Work in the industry, live below your means, save up cash and you will learn a lot from experience and from working with others. Then you will be properly capitalized and have lots of street smarts to go with it.


Trading is not about reading some books and becoming a trader. just as being a doctor is not about reading some books on medicine and expecting to run a practice.
 
Quote from Visaria:

Disagree with some (much?) of the advice here.

There's only one real way of learning to trade and that is to trade.

Read the books mentioned, buy Amibroker (or whatever), buy data, do simulations, look at charts, talk to people. Find something that works, study money management, understand your own psychology.

But in the end, if you can't pull the trigger, you're no good. The only way you are going to know that is if you trade.
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Completely agree with you... however he doesn't have the capital to trade successfully yet. Until he is ready to move and trade for a prop firm using their capital he should sit on his hands and do nothing other then read books, forums and generally study everything about trading.

But as Visaria says NOTHING beats screen time and you are in the perfect situation to learn at a prop firm at the moment as your fixed costs are really low... you don't have any commitments...
 
But proptrader, surely with his $15k, he can trade stocks, ETFs, maybe some mini future contracts, options....???

I think he could learn a lot in say, one month. Say he spends 10 hours a day, 7 days a week at it, reading books, looking at charts, doing simulations, that can be a lot of knowledge in a short space of time.

Perhaps in his second month, he could actually start trading. Look at the most volatile instruments out there. Maybe focus on about 10 or less of them. His aim should not be to live off trading, but to try and double, perhaps triple his grubstake over the course of the year. Position trading for at least overnight duration, certainly no day trading.

I'm just trying to think what I would do if I was 20 years old again.
 
Thank you guys. I wasn't expecting the quantity and quality of post here. Kinggyppo that list of links is awesome, that finviz site is exactly what I have been looking for, and those threads have been booked marked and will be read asap.

Specterx very good advice about not wanting to be starting a career at 25 if this doesn't pan out. Yes, we do have a family farm that I can work at and bank some money. I am working with the sim on Sterling but noticed a few flaws so I am creating an excel file using their DDE link to keep track of my trades and give more realistic fills.

MTLTrader and LEAPup I will going to st.mary's library to see if any of those books are there and if not amazon has them all. And LEAPup my dad is a tough man so he should be back up and running in no time. And other then the snow here, can't really complain about my current situation, but you should see one of the mothers but that is a whole other thread.

KINGOFSHORTS I enjoyed both your analogies in regards to the NFL and being a doctor, I totally get your point. I assume my chances at Goldman or some hedge fund in NYC is probably next to none but LEAPup did post a list of prop firms on another thread that I am looking at and hopefully have an opportunity there to gain some experience as an assistant or anything for that matter, but not sure how many sponsor work visa so that might be an issue.

Visaria, I am trying to doing exactly what you said. Just trying to get as much screen time as I can. I am up at 4:30 here and able to get what I need to get done by 11:00 or so and then I just look at charts, watch the level 2, write down trading ideas, read books on trading etc. I have a note book almost full of trading ideas that I have come on my own, or have altered based on someones strategy. Once I get Amibroker, multicharts, sierra charts or some other back testing software I can start testing and optimizing these ideas. And hopefully then get to code something that can be actually used.

Thanks to everyone that has posted, it has all been great advice I do appreciate it and hopefully I can give something back to this site one day.
 
Quote from Visaria:

Disagree with some (much?) of the advice here.

There's only one real way of learning to trade and that is to trade.

Read the books mentioned, buy Amibroker (or whatever), buy data, do simulations, look at charts, talk to people. Find something that works, study money management, understand your own psychology.

But in the end, if you can't pull the trigger, you're no good. The only way you are going to know that is if you trade.
More...
.

+1

The best advice on this thread.
I am not discarding the reading/sim aspects that others have said.

DUDE,

Psychology 101

Is trading a Carreer for you ? or Atleast you want it as a career ??
If the answer is Yes !!! Then get ready to pay the tuition fees like any other Career. Do not get discouraged when people say you will not see a dime for 3 yrs !! Who does??? In which career ??? Investment Banking requires atleast education upto MBA costing over $200K (including undergrad). and the most key cost - 7 years of you life from now before you will see A DIME.

What is the best way to Learn about any job and get Good at it ??
It is AT the JOB and not is college or school. Real life in a cube is so different than what you will learn in school. Then why do they require all these degrees and certifications to be able to apply at a Job??? Answer comes from the basics of ECONOMICS. Supply and Demand. BArries to ENTRY and few other concepts regarding human dedication to excellence. What I am getting at is that Trading is one of the few careers whith lowest barriers to entry. (is there a Catch to this - Duhh !! - Ask me later about it )
:cool: So you can set aside 10K witha Prop firm trade with THE TRADERS AT JOB and learn. Learn what does not work before you make those mistakes and get fammiliar with them. They will manage your account for you (Daily loss - Bla Bla). Teach you what works. You will get screen time. you will be Trading and feeling the real emotional turmoil one goes before they get Numb to Loss of money.


Offcourse there is alot to Learn and why not - IT IS A BIG DEAL.

At your stage do not get confused. DO NOT start trying formulating mechanical strategies and back testing and all that. YOu are probably 2 years away from all that.

I hope you can see the pain i am going thru when I write this. I wish I was where you are today. DO NOT blow it up.

ONE Final word. After you get your screen time, you feel no pain in loosing money, you can control your emotions, you can understand WHY and HOW markets move, you stop blaming the MARKET, Realize that trading is just Gambling with better odds.
"You will realize that you can't help making money."

Gudluck
 
And ya,

Read "Reminiscensces of a stock operator"
You might not get all that there is to learn from Jesses experiences before you actually trade and loose some money. But you will surely appreciate it later on. He was a Trader. That is all he knew. It was his only SKILL or Career.
 
Quote from jokepie:

.

What is the best way to Learn about any job and get Good at it ??
---
So you can set aside 10K witha Prop firm trade with THE TRADERS AT JOB and learn. Learn what does not work before you make those mistakes and get fammiliar with them. They will manage your account for you (Daily loss - Bla Bla). Teach you what works.

You will get screen time. you will be Trading and feeling the real emotional turmoil one goes before they get Numb to Loss of money.
More...

Yes I'm advocating this 100%. The thing is you can go even one step better and not even have to put your 10k up as "deposit". You can learn with their $$. This is exactly what I did when I started... make all your mistakes with their $$.

The only sacrifice is that you probably won't make any $$ for a while. I got lucky I think and managed a check in my 2nd month. But this is perfect for you because you don't have the "need" to make a living of it at this point. Consider this as the opportunity cost of your trading education... i.e. amount you could make at another job at the moment
 
The only 2 books needed to make it as a trader ! "Reading price charts bar by bar" by Al Brooks......[a tough read...but the results are GOLDEN] "Trading in the zone" by Mark Douglas...[for the mental aspects of this game]........other than that.......thousands of hours of screentime ! Its like anything else worthwhile in this world.......if you stick with it....and don't give up....you can make it ! Good luck !
 
Since you know C# I recommend installing TradeLink (free) and recording tick data for as many good symbols as you can off of your esignal data feed. In a few months you'll have a decent data set that would have cost $$ to buy.

TradeLink also lets you backtest strategies and deploy strategies.
 
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