If you're arguing with Bugenhagen, just put him on ignore. Most people here don't listen to him. He's just the old user Slartibartfest, and most of what he says about himself is an outright lie. Save your breath.
Just a flu bro...literally
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If you're arguing with Bugenhagen, just put him on ignore. Most people here don't listen to him. He's just the old user Slartibartfest, and most of what he says about himself is an outright lie. Save your breath.
If the restaurant closures continue, I will move it out. If I recall there isn't an explicit right to eat at restaurants.
I don't think you understand the word "Freedom." Stop watching Fox News.
The government has the right to control many of these activities. Or do we take this to ad nuseum places like "I have a right to shoot you because you are stupid." and "speed limits are unconstitutional." "You are denying my freedom to kill others with my coughing if I am infected with COVID"
If you want to talk about re-opening the economy and the trade-offs between life and economic prosperity, that is a legitimate issue. But this has nothing to do about Freedom. The same way the ethnicity of the head of the WHO has nothing to do with qualifications.
No, there isn't. But restaurant owners who abide by the law and pay taxes should have a right to run their business. And the employees of those establishments have a right to wait tables, but are being told they cannot.
Stop using the word "Freedom" and "Rights." It has nothing to do with freedom or rights.
Your post means that if a business chooses to close its doors (because it is unprofitable) it has denied its employees the "Freedom of employment."
The virus is an attack on the American way of life. The way Pearl Harbor and 911 were too. And the ramifications on the American way of life can be far-reaching in so many good and bad ways.
Yes. The government shut down the economy in favor of reducing the spread of COVID. Maybe that is the right decision or the wrong one. But it's not an issue of "freedom" and "rights." Its an issue of our value on human life vs our value on economic productivity and our willingness to trade one vs the other.
Coming from a developing nation, the difference between America and those countries is that human life is valued here. One worker fatality at a chemical plant makes the news and spurs a government investigation. There are worksites in india where 10 people will die every day and not an eyelid is batted.
But as you said, our response to this has ramifications on the "American way of life."
Stop using the word "Rights."
The right to run a business is not guaranteed. The right to have a job is not guaranteed.
First, I specifically pointed out that these are not Constitutional rights. I merely repeated the same phrase you guys were using. Please don't fall back on semantics as a arguing point, because that just means you don't have strong ground. My post doesn't suggest that if a business closes its doors, it denies employees "Freedom of Employment". What I specifically say is that when the government closes all businesses down (except those that are essential) and forces people to stay at home and not go to work, they have been denied the right to gainful employment. It is a relatively simple concept and I don't know why it is requiring me to say it over and over again, or why you're not grasping the difference.
When Pearl Harbor and 9-11 happened, did we close businesses nationwide and lock everyone in their homes except essential people? This is, of course, discounting two very real physical attacks and one hypothetical one. No, the virus isn't hypothetical, its impact is.
If someone is confined to their house, you think this isn't an issue of freedom? I mean, really?? Its kind of the most basic definition of Freedom - to go anywhere one wants.
I don't know what any of this has to do with the definition of Freedom or the government pulling back on those freedoms.
What should they do given the COVID situation? 50 packed in a restaurant every hour on a busy night touching surfaces and being in such close proximity? It is easy to say it is unfair and sucks and damaging economically but doing it for 60 days and providing government support versus doing nothing and letting this thing keep spreading over and over?
It stops being useful simply demanding how unfair this is when no one specifically caused this but we are all dealing with it.
A restaurant runs its business with the permission of the State through licensing. You cannot just say someone has a right to do something when there is an overriding issue of health and safety. If there was a gas leak two doors down and the police and fire department came and told the owner to close his restaurant at 1PM on Saturday and vacate for the rest of the weekend (the most profitable time) until it was cleared and deemed safe, he does not have the right to keep his place open. The bigger issues is this is not just a day or two but much longer so this is new territory.
The issue is when does COVID subside enough to allow them to open restaurants?
I don't have the answer as medical experts disagree but if the government is foricng the closing then hopefully they can provide 2 months of support to get them through until it can reopen.
Once again, I used the word "rights" because - while not Constitutionally protected - Americans still have basic rights that aren't laid out in the text of the founding document. For example, we have a right to gainful employment - something just about everyone in the country would agree on.
Regardless, there are many true Constitutional Rights that are being violated. The Right to Assembly. The Right to Exercise Freedom of Religion. Right now, those are two big ones.
This discussion isn't about what we should do. It is about what we are doing. The poster "newwurldmn" does not believe people are being refused the "right" to be employed - that's what he said and what he has further supported in subsequent posts. He also doesn't believe that this is a right at all (I agree Constitutionally and have said this, disagree when it is applied to our way of life). Regardless, there are real rights that are being denied.
Before we can get into the argument of what we should do, we first have to have an honest discussion on what we are doing. That seems to be problematic lately with a number of posters.