Just 4 The Naysayers

Quote from Veyron 16.4:

I realize the standard term is Notional and not Notational. I've always used Notational for my own reasons without explaining the why behind doing so - nor will I take the time to educate you on the why, now.

Your own reasons? Ignorance?


Face-facts. You blew out a demo account and don't know the difference between Euro and American exercise. You trade an absurd hedging strategy guaranteed to do nothing but accumulate losses. Barring any new development in your never-ending diarrhea; why are you still here?
 
Quote from FB123:

No, but it obviously matters to you from the way you have started a third thread about this after 2 were already closed down. If it didn't matter to you, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Somebody asks me to post live trades. I tell them there is no way I can do that but I can post trade results for the week, if I had time.

You then ask me why am I posting trade results for the week.

Think about it. Let it sink in just a bit.



Quote from FB123:
The more evidence you post, the more likely it is that what you are saying is true. Yes it could be photoshopped...

Which is exact what has already been claimed. Furthermore, why would anyone post business related financial documents in full public view - just because somebody asked for it. That makes no sense to me. Maybe it is something that you would do, but not me.


Quote from FB123:
Maybe so, but as I said, the more evidence you post, the more it's likely that people will believe you.

You are not getting it, I'm afraid. Eliciting belief, is not why I posted a personal story in the first place. If somebody asks me to later post some "proof," then it is up to me to decide if I want to do it, then decide how best to do it without giving away too much. The belief that others have, has never entered the equation in my mind - it does not pay my bills - my system takes care of that quite well.

Quote from FB123:
Hey it's no skin off my nose.

Likewise.

Quote from FB123:
Anyways, feel free to keep arguing with people... but if you really don't care what people think as you say, now would be a pretty good time to walk away. I would.


Actually, I'm not "arguing" anything that I "need" to win, unlike what others seem to be doing, here. I find many of the replies rather amusing and have already stated as much.

Walk away? From what? There is no "there" here on ET, apparently. I agree, it was a mistake to think that many here had the capacity to appreciate hard work and the results from such hard work. A simple story of personal success gets a thread closed and ego's bruised? That makes no sense - must have struck a nerve somewhere and I find it very amusing!
 
Quote from atticus:

Your own reasons? Ignorance?


Face-facts. You blew out a demo account and don't know the difference between Euro and American exercise. You trade an absurd hedging strategy guaranteed to do nothing but accumulate losses. Barring any new development in your never-ending diarrhea; why are you still here?

Your facts about things you know nothing about. You threw up a red herring about Options after taking my post out of context. You are the one who does not know the difference between White Label and Application Service Provider Model. You are the one who fakes being a real trader in the currency markets, because if you were and you did start from scratch, then you would have blown out more demo accounts than you have fingers AND toes on both hands and feet.

And, yet, you are still here trying to write a Covered Call for your flat out error and ignorance.

Keep selling those Calls. Eventually, you will be exercised right out of the business.
 
Quote from Veyron 16.4:

Maybe they put something in the water that people drink here on ET, or maybe I'm just way out on Pluto or something, but did I not say that I cannot post live trades as I have no real way of redacting the profiles AND that not doing so, would reveal "too much" of what I've worked "too hard" to produce?

Did I not say that?

Did I not say that the only thing I could think of, would be to post some results from a demo account, if I had the time? I thought I said that - did I not? Correct, me if I am wrong. Correct me if I did not say that prior to posting these results.

First (and I can't believe I have to explain this), these results are not back-tested results, for crying out loud. These results come from this week - look at the dates. Look at the last date for the last segment closed - it was TODAY - not 10 years ago.

Second, contemporaneous, mechanical trades are real by physical definition. They cannot possibly be anything else. This profile traded here was exactly the same profile that I had running under my actual trading account. However, I am not about to post balances or anything else for that matter, from my actual accounts. So, the only thing I could do was post results from a demo account running in parallel with actual. And, that's exactly what you got - like it or leave it - results are results as long as the system used is mechanical.

Now, if you use a manual system for entry and exit, then your complaint would be valid and logical because anyone can fudge what they "might do" with what the "actually did" prior to closing each position. However, there is no way possible for me to trade such a complex profile manually especially in a market that runs 24 HOURS per day!

What? Is somebody here on "elite" going to tell me that I had on sleep this week? That I stayed up since Monday when the positions were first entered and never closed my eyes as I manually maneuvered my way to picking-off points at which I would close positions? If so, that would be on par for this forum, but it would also be silly.

Mechanical, contemporaneous, profiled (stops and limits) trades, done any way against live market data, is proof positive that something either worked or did not work.

Show me the trader who does not test their ideas first, before going to market with them in real-time, and I'll show you somebody pretending to be a real trader.

So, if anyone uses paper to proof their theories about what they will do in live trading and then turn around in the exact same breath and throw stones at those same paper proofs, then that would be the absolute height of irrational behavior and hypocrisy for the trader. Not to mention completely illogical.

You cannot define a proof as being valid for future expectations and then turn right around and invalidate that SAME kind of proof when it does not fit the curve of your ulterior motive to debunk one using the EXACT same proofing methodology.

Case in point.
You sorta lost me me at hello there, Mr Bugatti... You've exhausted the benefit of doubt by being so monumentally defensive.

I have absolutely no idea what you said or did not say before. So here's what I say to you:
1) Profitability on paper is a condition that is necessary, but not sufficient to make a decision regarding the actual profitability of a strategy. You've got the 'necessary' bit, but somehow you're forgetting the "not sufficient".
2) Again, a single trade does not a strategy make. Neither does it actually prove anything.

Furthermore, your motivation doesn't make sense to me, like to others here. I also don't understand why you're so defensive and can't take advice in the spirit it was given, i.e. as constructive criticism.

At any rate, best of luck to you! This concludes my communication with you, Mr Bugatti.
 
Quote from Veyron 16.4:

Your facts about things you know nothing about. You threw up a red herring about Options after taking my post out of context. You are the one who does not know the difference between White Label and Application Service Provider Model. You are the one who fakes being a real trader in the currency markets, because if you were and you did start from scratch, then you would have blown out more demo accounts than you have fingers AND toes on both hands and feet.

And, yet, you are still here trying to write a Covered Call for your flat out error and ignorance.

Keep selling those Calls. Eventually, you will be exercised right out of the business.

Nothing was taken out of context. Look at the attachment. You can't possibly trade a product for which you have so little knowledge. You proceeded to use a $5341 demo gain as some proof of your prowess, yet denounced a $41,000 loss in the same account as testing. I don't believe you're attempting to vend a product... I think you're simply attempting to reinforce your delusional behavior that resulted in your loss of 82%. The World needs ditch-diggers too. Keep your chin-up.

And yes, you CAN offset a Euro-style option prior to expiration, you simply can't exercise. Truly beyond belief that you could fuck that sideways. ;)

Enjoy your fantasy. I'll leave you here.
 

Attachments

This is the point where you get run off ET looking like a fool, off to change your screen name. There are a handful of high quality traders on ET and they all have one thing in common -- they don't talk about their victories or results. Watching their account grow is enough. We've all been through the stage you are going through. Right about now you're at that, "ah-ha! I've proven it can be done" stage. If you go off and turn actual profits on your system you'll be back to talk loudly and clearly about your new found success. It will all quickly end and then it will be time for you to regroup. You'll either adapt or you won't. Either way you'll acquire a great deal of humility and no longer will you find the need to come on ET and boast. The best traders really don't say much about their trading at all. That is truly the common thread among successful traders!

That being said however, it doesn't hurt to let you know that <b>I</b> am the1. Ha, ha, nothing wrong with a little ego. Just a little bit though or it'll hurt your trading :D

Quote from atticus:

Nothing was taken out of context. Look at the attachment. You can't possibly trade a product for which you have so little knowledge. You proceeded to use a $5341 demo gain as some proof of your prowess, yet denounced a $41,000 loss in the same account as testing. I don't believe you're attempting to vend a product... I think you're simply attempting to reinforce your delusional behavior that resulted in your loss of 82%. The World needs ditch-diggers too. Keep your chin-up.

And yes, you CAN offset a Euro-style option prior to expiration, you simply can't exercise. Truly beyond belief that you could fuck that sideways. ;)

Enjoy your fantasy. I'll leave you here.
 
Quote from the1:

This is the point where you get run off ET looking like a fool, off to change your screen name. There are a handful of high quality traders on ET and they all have one thing in common -- they don't talk about their victories or results.

Really. Well, maybe that is because none of them have have reached the virtually risk-less trade level, maybe? Just maybe, if someone had, they might want to share it with the world - the accomplishment - not the actual details behind how it is done.

To the contrary, I know of some very serious and very gracious traders in this business, who spent small amounts of time on online forums, helping a handful of people at any one time. And, they talk about how they became successful as traders all the time. Some people feel comfortable talking about the details of what they do, while others (most others) do not. Posting an anonymous success story, is in no way a calling card for one seeking worship.

If you had found a cure for cancer, short of wanting the Nobel Prize for having done so, would you keep the story to yourself. Of course, not. Well, as far as I am concerned, I've discovered the cure for losing capital (with the one caveat that I mentioned before still in play).

But, that's only half the story.

You see, what I did not tell in my first story, was the fact that I am putting the finishing touches on a non-directional system for Day Trading. Right now, I get results in about 3-12 days - on average, about 1 week. That's why I swing trade. But, what I'm working on right now will reduce that time down to a single 24 hour trading session.

This week, I spent time in 2006, verifying the data. I'll go back as far as 1999 and then work my way forward again to 2009, so the data verification process takes a lot of time the way I do things. Once I get final confirmation that the returns/results are in-line with expectations, I'll post another success story so that thread can get closed, too.

Surprise!


Quote from the1:
Watching their account grow is enough. We've all been through the stage you are going through.

Sounds, good! I had no idea that you had found a way to trade in either direction and turn a profit about 99% of the time. Why did you not simply say so! Congratulations - not many people figure out how to accomplish that task, so I want to take this opportunity to say way to go! I know it took a tremendous amount of hard work, patience, persistence, commitment and courage to do what you have done. Most people in this business will only dream about it, but never be willing to pay the price for securing that level of confidence and success as a trader - so again, Kudos to YOU! 99% - it sure does feel good having that much confidence, does it not!


Quote from the1:
Right about now you're at that, "ah-ha! I've proven it can be done" stage.

Yes, correct. That: Aha! 99% of the time I won't lose money on this trade stage. Absolutely! And, it feels awesome as you already know, because you have passed through this place where I am right now!

Quote from the1:
If you go off and turn actual profits on your system you'll be back to talk loudly and clearly about your new found success.

Sorry, I did not intend to mislead. I'm already turning profits with my work and at an alarming rate. If you recall, I said a couple of times already that sooner, rather than later, I will exceed the maximum single trade size limitation that my bank offers through its platform and will need to make the move to an institutional platform, or be stuck with the very unlikely prospect of clicking multiple blocks of maximum size positions into the market artificially. So, I'm already well on my way to taking out some of the financial goals that I set-up some time ago.

Quote from the1:
It will all quickly end and then it will be time for you to regroup.

That's what happens to directional traders who don't have the luxury of either: a) Trading with a very high probability system, or b) Being able to trade non-directionally.

When you can move in either direction and hit your target, or still net a positive trade, or at the very least, break-even about 99% of the time (with one rare exception), then Game Over. Trading is no longer a question of IF I will hit my financial targets, but WHEN.

I've already been down the road of having to "re-group" MANY times before, not just once - but MANY times. That's part of the pain and suffering that you MUST pay to be truly "elite" in this business.

Been there, done that - ain't going back.

Quote from the1:
You'll either adapt or you won't. Either way you'll acquire a great deal of humility and no longer will you find the need to come on ET and boast.

That's precisely why I say, struck a nerve. You can't point to a single shred of evidence in my personal story, that even remotely comes close to boasting - not a single shred. In fact, what the heck do you call that thanks I throughout to my Wife for putting up with six (6) years of my not going back to corporate America, if not total humility. The problem with ET, is that NOBODY reads a DAMN thing. You just put on your "he can't be right" blinders and start running yourselves into brick wall after brick wall.

The ONLY fire you've seen come from me, is AFTER the personal insults and personal attacks began. And, for what? What the hell is anyone doing personally attacking someone merely telling a one-off story of success? That's was lame, dumb, stupid and it DID trigger my literary wrath, which you feel right now.

I never stepped on anyone, first - her at "elite" trader. So, please, by all means, at least get that part of your story down pat. I am the respondent, here.


Quote from the1:
The best traders really don't say much about their trading at all. That is truly the common thread among successful traders!

Not so in MANY cases that I know of personally, number one. And, number two, I've made it clear that one trader's idea of success in this business, is another trader's idea of total mediocrity and/or failure.

First, when you talk about trading success, you can't compare apples to oranges, like so many people do in error. Somebody who trades the market every single day, with an extremely high degree of accuracy to target, might consider themselves highly successful. One the other hand, a trader who takes a single swing trade each month with a high degree of target accuracy, might too consider themselves a high successful trader. At the same time, one who trades every day, but can only reach the 70% to 80% accuracy to target level, might just as well consider himself or herself very successful.

My definition of success is based upon what my financial needs are and whether or not I have built/designed the vehicle to take me there in a time frame that I consider acceptable to me. The other component of success that I use, is the mathematical error rate to a specified target within a specified time-frame. That is a clear metric that I use along with my financial goals reached in time metric. Both of those measures are what I use to determine whether or not I am successful or not.

Anytime you can enter the market, trade in ANY direction, strike your target and lose capital only 1% of the time at most, then by most definitions that I am aware of, you must therefore be a successful trader - but - are you reaching your financial goals on time? That's the REALLY big question.

Success in this business is more than a notion or a plain vanilla, generic definition. Success in this business is very personal as well as mathematical.


Quote from the1:
That being said however, it doesn't hurt to let you know that <b>I</b> am the1. Ha, ha, nothing wrong with a little ego. Just a little bit though or it'll hurt your trading :D

I actually enjoyed your post! :cool:
 
Quote from Martinghoul:

You sorta lost me me at hello there, Mr Bugatti... You've exhausted the benefit of doubt by being so monumentally defensive.

The rest of your post go tuned out. When you start off by telling the one that got rudely attacked personally, merely telling is story of success, then you have started your entire post off on the wrong foot. You may end up well in the rest of your post, but you started it off the wrong way, because no one with an ounce of integrity, would ever consider it "defensive" to merely shoot back when being shot at.

I call that "offensive" not defensive - but you can call it what you want.

Besides, I'm just having some fun here anyway - relax.

Things can go either way with me - literally, LOL! :p
 
Since you're not going to post any actual financial results (even if everything relevant to your account was blacked out), how about you answer some questions just for interest's sake:

1. How long have you been trading this system with live money?

2. How much money did you start with?

3. Where were you at after 30 days? 60 days? 90 Days? And how much are you at now?

4. How many trades per day/week/month does this system generate?

5. What % was your greatest drawdown?

If you can answer these questions, it will give people a good idea of the type of performance you are actually claiming. No proof of course - I'm just curious to know the numbers since you seem so insistent that this is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
 
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