One would have to think that the punishment for not believing in a deity would severely outweigh the need for proof that such a deity exists.
judge not moving 10 commandments statue from u.s.a. gov. property
- Thread starter Weeble
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An interesting site: http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/wager.html
On a personal note and belief:
Although there are many Gods, maybe the true intent of the creator was to spread everyone out, give each group of people a different religion (ala sending prophets or messiahs to different parts of the world) and test the faith of people. All religions basically say to love and respect one another. Maybe the true test of people and the meaning of life is whether we as inhabitants of this planet can get along while adhering to different principles. Makes sense to me.
Edit: I'll stick to the ya better believe or else its going to end badly scenario.
On a personal note and belief:
Although there are many Gods, maybe the true intent of the creator was to spread everyone out, give each group of people a different religion (ala sending prophets or messiahs to different parts of the world) and test the faith of people. All religions basically say to love and respect one another. Maybe the true test of people and the meaning of life is whether we as inhabitants of this planet can get along while adhering to different principles. Makes sense to me.
Edit: I'll stick to the ya better believe or else its going to end badly scenario.
" maybe the true intent of the creator was to spread everyone out, give each group of people a different religion (ala sending prophets or messiahs to different parts of the world) and test the faith of people"
Maybe. But we have no evidence for this.
It's a hypothesis you would need to prove.
Also.... did you miss the part in the article which stated:
Many people believe that all the different religions are merely alternative routes to the same destination. Nice and tolerant (if a little warm'n'fuzzy) though this may be, there is no valid reason to accept this stance over the fire-and-brimstone fundamentalist position : if the fundies are right, then the un-Saved liberal theists are in just as much trouble as the nonbelievers.
The article you posted explains very well why Pascals wager
is so flawed, so I'll leave it at that.
I choose to live my life as if it's the only one I have.
Atheists tend to value life far more than theists, since they
don't believe in an afterlife (usually).
That is why you won't find me flying into buildings
in the name of god.
"Edit: I'll stick to the ya better believe or else its going to end badly scenario. "
Translation: I choose to live in, or believe in, out of fear.
peace
axeman
Maybe. But we have no evidence for this.
It's a hypothesis you would need to prove.
Also.... did you miss the part in the article which stated:
Many people believe that all the different religions are merely alternative routes to the same destination. Nice and tolerant (if a little warm'n'fuzzy) though this may be, there is no valid reason to accept this stance over the fire-and-brimstone fundamentalist position : if the fundies are right, then the un-Saved liberal theists are in just as much trouble as the nonbelievers.
The article you posted explains very well why Pascals wager
is so flawed, so I'll leave it at that.
I choose to live my life as if it's the only one I have.
Atheists tend to value life far more than theists, since they
don't believe in an afterlife (usually).
That is why you won't find me flying into buildings
in the name of god.
"Edit: I'll stick to the ya better believe or else its going to end badly scenario. "
Translation: I choose to live in, or believe in, out of fear.
peace
axeman
Quote from Covertibility:
An interesting site: http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/wager.html
On a personal note and belief:
Although there are many Gods, maybe the true intent of the creator was to spread everyone out, give each group of people a different religion (ala sending prophets or messiahs to different parts of the world) and test the faith of people. All religions basically say to love and respect one another. Maybe the true test of people and the meaning of life is whether we as inhabitants of this planet can get along while adhering to different principles. Makes sense to me.
Edit: I'll stick to the ya better believe or else its going to end badly scenario.
Come on axe, you can do better than that. I'm sure you're well aware that atheists are united by nothing more than a common non-belief in gods; beyond that they come in all shapes and sizes.
You only need to look at the atheist wonderlands of communist Russia and China to see how much life was "valued".
axe:How is this weak?
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Where is the disproof of the studies that use plants or organisms to be double blind? To use the weak arguments about the control groups using patients and then try to paint the author as dishonest on an entirely different type of study is in my book is dishonest.
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"axe:Would you consider it intellectual pride to ask
ZEUS to prove himself to you?
Doubter:
Do you know what intellectual pride is?"
Stop dodging the question. Answer my question first
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Why? If you can't define it you sure can't recognize it in the mirror.
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Even if I were FULL OF intellectual pride, this does NOT in
any way magically invalidate my position, so you can just
drop the psycho babble right here and now.
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It doesn't magically invalidate your position but it calls into question the reason for some of your conclusions. Lets see now you can make all sorts of disparaging conclusions about theists but questioning your motives is off limits? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!
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False. There is nothing closed or prejudiced with my mind.
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Laughable.
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If anyone has intellectual pride
issues and is closeminded, it is the THEIST who *KNOWS*
he is right and does not even ALLOW for the possibility
of being wrong.
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Some theists do and some don't just like atheists, some are closed minded and so are some atheists. Just let the symptoms expose the motives.
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Where is the disproof of the studies that use plants or organisms to be double blind? To use the weak arguments about the control groups using patients and then try to paint the author as dishonest on an entirely different type of study is in my book is dishonest.
_________________________________
"axe:Would you consider it intellectual pride to ask
ZEUS to prove himself to you?
Doubter:
Do you know what intellectual pride is?"
Stop dodging the question. Answer my question first
________________________________________
Why? If you can't define it you sure can't recognize it in the mirror.
_________________________________
Even if I were FULL OF intellectual pride, this does NOT in
any way magically invalidate my position, so you can just
drop the psycho babble right here and now.
________________________________________
It doesn't magically invalidate your position but it calls into question the reason for some of your conclusions. Lets see now you can make all sorts of disparaging conclusions about theists but questioning your motives is off limits? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!
______________________________
False. There is nothing closed or prejudiced with my mind.
_______________________________________
Laughable.
___________________________________
If anyone has intellectual pride
issues and is closeminded, it is the THEIST who *KNOWS*
he is right and does not even ALLOW for the possibility
of being wrong.
________________________________
Some theists do and some don't just like atheists, some are closed minded and so are some atheists. Just let the symptoms expose the motives.
Your are mistaking the actions of a communistic political
system with atheism.
In fact, communist russia was actually very religious, even
thought the government was not religious.
What is important here is wether or not russias and chinas
ATHEISTIC or COMMUNISTIC beliefs caused them to
NOT value life.
I think you would be hard pressed to prove that their
inhuman actions were directly linked to their atheism
and not their political beliefs. Your correlation is flawed.
Russian secret police were never heard throwing people
in the gulags while yelling "In the name of ATHEISM". LOL.
The opposite is not true. Religion has a history of killing
people explicitly in the name of god, inlcuding POPES!
It is true however, that atheists come in MANY forms.
But my statement remains the same.... in general, atheists
will value life more than theists. How could they not?
A person who thinks he is effectively immortal because of
an afterlife, cannot in no sense value what he cannot
lose MORE than a person who believes he CAN lose it, his life.
peace
axeman
system with atheism.
In fact, communist russia was actually very religious, even
thought the government was not religious.
What is important here is wether or not russias and chinas
ATHEISTIC or COMMUNISTIC beliefs caused them to
NOT value life.
I think you would be hard pressed to prove that their
inhuman actions were directly linked to their atheism
and not their political beliefs. Your correlation is flawed.
Russian secret police were never heard throwing people
in the gulags while yelling "In the name of ATHEISM". LOL.
The opposite is not true. Religion has a history of killing
people explicitly in the name of god, inlcuding POPES!
It is true however, that atheists come in MANY forms.
But my statement remains the same.... in general, atheists
will value life more than theists. How could they not?
A person who thinks he is effectively immortal because of
an afterlife, cannot in no sense value what he cannot
lose MORE than a person who believes he CAN lose it, his life.
peace
axeman
I wasn't addressing correlation though. Just pointing out that clear atheists -- as were the entire Soviet and Chinese power structures -- had no apparent qualms with killing 'innocents'. I'm not saying that they killed because their atheism demanded it -- cleary atheism doesn't demand anything -- just that hear we have substantial numbers of atheists who expressed an abject disregard for human life. I think it's a pertinent point given your contention that atheists value life "far more" than theists.
How could they not? Well, they could have been part of the Soviet or Chinese communist power structures.
Seriously, that is really no more than your assertion; one I'm sure you feel much comfort in believing. On the other hand though, I could just as easily assert that an atheists, in general, have less regard for life than theists, given that they do not ascribe any inherent value or meaning to life and that given certain circumstances -- such as establishing an authoritarian communist state, for example (a good example, too) -- they would have less/no moral hang ups about taking massive amounts of human life.
It's a tough call either way. But if, as I suspect, you try and use your side of it to claim it would be a better world if we were all atheist it just doesn't fly. The only cases of mass atheism we have -- the authoritarian communist states -- are surely experiences we wouldn't want to repeat. I know you can cite (many) cases or theistic mistreatment of people, but given that theists in days gone by comprised about 99.9% of the population, it won't do to use the fact the killers were theists to score points against theism; especially not when comparing modern day theists and atheists.
Your are mistaking the actions of a communistic political
system with atheism.
In fact, communist russia was actually very religious, even
thought the government was not religious..
axeman
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Now you had better check your facts. I am involved with a pretty widespread work in Siberia. We went in right after the country was opened and what you said is plainly not true.
system with atheism.
In fact, communist russia was actually very religious, even
thought the government was not religious..
axeman
________________________________________
Now you had better check your facts. I am involved with a pretty widespread work in Siberia. We went in right after the country was opened and what you said is plainly not true.