And this is a 1min chart of the entire day
Journal to get some HELP
- Thread starter quotetrader
- Start date
Thank you Redneck
That makes alot of sense re: the timeframes, and reinforces what I was already suspecting
When you say "ATR" what are you referring to
also, makes sense on the 3x requiring bigger stops
i appreciate your feedback greatly
That makes alot of sense re: the timeframes, and reinforces what I was already suspecting
When you say "ATR" what are you referring to
also, makes sense on the 3x requiring bigger stops
i appreciate your feedback greatly
I looked up ATR and I assume you are referring to Average True Range.
I have never used this before, and from what I see on the web, some people can plot it on a chart and use it to set stops.
However, I don't see anything like this amongst the 10 bajillion indicators available on QuoteTracker (which is what I use)
any info on using ATR is appreciated
I have never used this before, and from what I see on the web, some people can plot it on a chart and use it to set stops.
However, I don't see anything like this amongst the 10 bajillion indicators available on QuoteTracker (which is what I use)
any info on using ATR is appreciated
Quote from quotetrader:
Thank you Redneck
That makes alot of sense re: the timeframes, and reinforces what I was already suspecting
When you say "ATR" what are you referring to
also, makes sense on the 3x requiring bigger stops
i appreciate your feedback greatly
ATR = Average True Range / Average Trading Range
Once you select a chart time frame to trade from - determine the ATR (price movement per time period) you should expect
It won't be an exact science - but then neither is trading
And possibly try using multiple time frames (example long, mid, short) to determine S&R, and trading from (FWIW - may I suggest trading from the mid)
Take Care Sir
Redneck
Thanks Redneck-
How do you calc your ATR- do you work it out on paper, or is there a tool you use?
How do you calc your ATR- do you work it out on paper, or is there a tool you use?
I usually don't comment in journals, but I want to point something out to you about something I learned that I didn't know about when I first started trading.
You need to look at the distribution of returns for your asset class for the time period you are trading. You should become familiar with the mean-scaling laws for returns. If you assume that the returns are normally distributed, then you should have a guide in terms of what the movement should be +/- one standard deviation.
Let me give you an example. If the average return is 5% on a 60min bar, +/- 2% [at one standard deviation], you have returns between 3% and 7%, 68% of the time. So if you are holding that stock on a short term trade past what its historical behavior has been hoping for a 9%, you need a good reason. These returns will also scale depending on the time bar you use.
I'm not saying this is a bullet-proof system, and you will kick yourself a few times when the stock moves, but let me just say that if you are trading RSI intraday and are holding, expecting a massive move of $5 in a 5 minute period when the stock rarely if ever moves that much, you're shooting yourself in the foot. You need to be armed mentally with the knowledge of how the stock moves to avoid holding a loser too long and not capping a winner soon enough. Having a mathematical picture will help you overcome these obstacles. Historical or windowed-historical distribution of price moves should be the first thing you have in your mind.
You should calculate what the average returns are over a basic, small time window. This will give you a general idea of what to expect while trading. Let me also state that when a stock is not trading in a +/- one sigma type range, you WILL know by the force and intensity of the move [it will usually be news driven.]
I'm telling you this because I used to pseudo-market make the same stocks every day. It took me 2 years to realize that the problems I had with letting my profits run and cutting my losses had a lot to do with this underlying mathematical description of how the stock actually moves.
You need to look at the distribution of returns for your asset class for the time period you are trading. You should become familiar with the mean-scaling laws for returns. If you assume that the returns are normally distributed, then you should have a guide in terms of what the movement should be +/- one standard deviation.
Let me give you an example. If the average return is 5% on a 60min bar, +/- 2% [at one standard deviation], you have returns between 3% and 7%, 68% of the time. So if you are holding that stock on a short term trade past what its historical behavior has been hoping for a 9%, you need a good reason. These returns will also scale depending on the time bar you use.
I'm not saying this is a bullet-proof system, and you will kick yourself a few times when the stock moves, but let me just say that if you are trading RSI intraday and are holding, expecting a massive move of $5 in a 5 minute period when the stock rarely if ever moves that much, you're shooting yourself in the foot. You need to be armed mentally with the knowledge of how the stock moves to avoid holding a loser too long and not capping a winner soon enough. Having a mathematical picture will help you overcome these obstacles. Historical or windowed-historical distribution of price moves should be the first thing you have in your mind.
You should calculate what the average returns are over a basic, small time window. This will give you a general idea of what to expect while trading. Let me also state that when a stock is not trading in a +/- one sigma type range, you WILL know by the force and intensity of the move [it will usually be news driven.]
I'm telling you this because I used to pseudo-market make the same stocks every day. It took me 2 years to realize that the problems I had with letting my profits run and cutting my losses had a lot to do with this underlying mathematical description of how the stock actually moves.
Refer to my other post. Look at the time duration of your trade, and plot the return of your trade with regard to the distribution of returns for that particular holding time.
At 1M, depending on your commissions, you could've capped much sooner. If sooner wasn't the profit you're looking for, you should be trading and looking at bars on a different time scale.
your entry was very good. it would have been better at 6.90 if u were following the higher highs higher lows sequence.
i suggest u have a predetermined target before u enter the trade. for this i suggest using fibs. at this stage of your experience dont try shooting for the fences. try to set predetermined targets and when hit either preferably exit or put a tight trailing stop.
in this case draw fib using the 10:48 bar low to the 11:00 bar high; gives the target of 7.08. so if u wanted to make 100 bucks you will buy 1000 shares.
stop loss for this trade is at 6.87; preceding low before the entry point.
if you had taken the profits at 7.08 then you would be looking forward to the next long trade that began at 12:46
good work so far cause u contained the loss. thats where u were messing up before.
i suggest u have a predetermined target before u enter the trade. for this i suggest using fibs. at this stage of your experience dont try shooting for the fences. try to set predetermined targets and when hit either preferably exit or put a tight trailing stop.
in this case draw fib using the 10:48 bar low to the 11:00 bar high; gives the target of 7.08. so if u wanted to make 100 bucks you will buy 1000 shares.
stop loss for this trade is at 6.87; preceding low before the entry point.
if you had taken the profits at 7.08 then you would be looking forward to the next long trade that began at 12:46
good work so far cause u contained the loss. thats where u were messing up before.
Quote from quotetrader:
I looked up ATR and I assume you are referring to Average True Range.
I have never used this before, and from what I see on the web, some people can plot it on a chart and use it to set stops.
However, I don't see anything like this amongst the 10 bajillion indicators available on QuoteTracker (which is what I use)
any info on using ATR is appreciated
Under "select indicators "you will find it under "lower indicators".
You set the period you wish to use.
Ah thank you duhmentor- I see it now
I'll have to read up on how to use it
Thanks also for all the other comments!
I'll have to read up on how to use it
Thanks also for all the other comments!