Jon Najarian & InsideOptions.com Good or Bad?

thegazelle · Dec 11, 2008

Curious... if DRJ isn't a member, why is he on the floor of the CBOE so much for "CBOE-TV"

PS... Insideoptions blows.. Buy Cottle... something you can use...

MTE · Dec 12, 2008

Quote from 11inches:

Thanks...i couldn't remember his name...and he is brillant...

11inches...what's with all...can't you write normal sentences...?

dagnyt · Dec 12, 2008

Quote from jnbadger:

You've demonstrated on various options threads that you know what you are talking about.

If you don't mind me asking, did this gentleman give you that much of a jump start, or would you be as knowledgeable as you are now without his help.

As it relates to the thread, I guess I am wondering if Najarian had a great start as well, and maybe his ego - character got in the way.

It was an excellent jump start. But remember, it was 1977 and there was so little help available for option traders. It was so long ago, that there were no put options traded - only calls.

Marty introduced us to the idea of using theoretical values (Fisher Black sold his monthly list of estimated stock volatility for every stock with options). we had computers (very few of them and you had to wait in line to use them) called 'Monchick-Webers' that did the theoretical value calculations.

Many floor traders refused to use those theoreticals, giving us an edge.

Marty taught us to use the Greeks to help manage risk and various other, useful stuff. but, it's been more than 30 years and I don't recall the details.

Thus, a jump start - yes. But I believe everyone would be as knowledgeable today without that introduction. The big difference is that some of us would have gone broke - with no road back - without that training.

I cannot speak to Najarian's issues. I know him from the floor, and well enough to say 'hello' if our paths cross, but that's all.

Mark

kinggyppo · Dec 12, 2008

Quote from dagnyt:

It was an excellent jump start. But remember, it was 1977 and there was so little help available for option traders. It was so long ago, that there were no put options traded - only calls.

Marty introduced us to the idea of using theoretical values (Fisher Black sold his monthly list of estimated stock volatility for every stock with options). we had computers (very few of them and you had to wait in line to use them) called 'Monchick-Webers' that did the theoretical value calculations.

Many floor traders refused to use those theoreticals, giving us an edge.

Marty taught us to use the Greeks to help manage risk and various other, useful stuff. but, it's been more than 30 years and I don't recall the details.

Thus, a jump start - yes. But I believe everyone would be as knowledgeable today without that introduction. The big difference is that some of us would have gone broke - with no road back - without that training.

I cannot speak to Najarian's issues. I know him from the floor, and well enough to say 'hello' if our paths cross, but that's all.

Mark

Two questions; were you on the floor of the CBOE floor in 87? and who was the best option trader you met and why. Thanks in advance.

As a comment it seems that rock star traders are almost universally hated.

dagnyt · Dec 12, 2008

Quote from kinggyppo:

Two questions; were you on the floor of the CBOE floor in 87? and who was the best option trader you met and why. Thanks in advance.

As a comment it seems that rock star traders are almost universally hated.

In October 1987, I was trading from off the floor. Still got into plenty of trouble.

The truth is I cannot tell you who was 'best.' I traded in one pit (Hewlett Packard was main stock) and did not roam the floor.

I know one trader (whom I dare not name) who refused to go onto the floor during the crash, but made lots of money from positions and gained a lot of fame. For what? For being afraid to make markets when customers needed markets to be made! Totally unfair.

People get reputations from making money and sometimes it's just luck. I know one guy who decided to take a chance and 'bought the book' (all public orders available) of a FOTM call by paying 1/16. The market gapped higher the next day and he made a fortune. Best trader or lucky?

The best trader is one who quietly and consistently made lots of money every year, did not boast, did not reveal his secrets - if he had any - and is probably unknown to this day. But, I have no idea who that is.

I know this is not the answer you seek, but it's the best I can do. I don't believe in 'rock star' traders. And I don't know if they are hated because of their success, their lies about being successful, or because of all the boasting they did - regardless of success. Has any one of these 'stars' even provided proof of success, other than living the lifestyle of a wealthy person?

Mark
http://blog.mdwoptions.com/options_for_rookies/

kinggyppo · Dec 12, 2008

Good points, here is an interesting article on survivor bias. As far as trading goes its hard to prove you are skilled vs lucky, even if you have a good track record. It is going to be impossible to prove future results, which is all any investor is interested in anyway. Good trading.

http://www.mutualimprovement.com/2006/09/understanding_s.html

11inches · Dec 12, 2008

Quote from MTE:

11inches...what's with all...can't you write normal sentences...?

i don't see the need to write a full sentence...(and on and on)
so i use the ...

sorry it bothers u...

murray t turtle · Dec 12, 2008

Quote from da-net:

Mr. jnbadger,

Extremely good observation. I do not know about the past 15 years however perhaps I can shed some light on the past 16 months which appear to have been extremely difficult.

I attempt to go with free trials when possible so as to gain knowledge of their style and to especially see how they handle loosers. I find you can tell more about someone from their loosing trades than from their winners. I have gained more knowledge from free newsletters and made better trades than with paid subscriptions over the past 16 months. My personal experiences with different services over the past 16 months are;

Jon Najarian ($400.00+ monthly): he talks a great game, lays out the plan and fails to execute...no exit strategy...no money management...I would like to be more specific but can not without divulging everything he talks about

Big Trends, Price Headly (free daily email): very knowledgeable, good technical analyst, very clear and calm thinker in stressful market conditions. This free email does not have any trades within it. Have not tried his paid service ...YET.

Daily Market Update, Nirvana Systems, Ed Downs (free daily email): good market commentary, picks are based upon good chart patterns, excellent educational tutorials...they do not
offer trades, they just show you charts with patterns and tell you what may be coming...you make the decision

Schaeffers Research, Bernie Schaeffer ($99.00 per year, Market Gold): these research tools are excellent, online commentary is good. He has several free emails that are worthwhile reading. My account rep is Matt Appenzeller and I find him helpful, courteous, easy to talk with, quick to answer the phone or promptly returns calls, and not overly aggressive as a salesperson. I went with free emails for over a year before subscribing.

This is not the complete list of all I have personally tried.....

frank

=========================
I like thier well charted books more than thier e-commrnts or TV talk;
books last longer than TV talk. TV talk is cheap. Hope these are normal, understandable sentences..........................................

Never did find out how Joe's exit on penny stock trade E-Trade did?? He must have been a market maker, as short term as he trades perhaps.

As far as past TV talk , i found Karen Finerman swing trades to be more helpful,old news example, short LEH, long something else.She liked big trends ,but that mothers time frame varies.

If one likes videos,bloomberg.com has free good nuggets all the time;Jim Rogers free video on ''Bankruptcy good for GM'',today.: