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join Group One / DRW Trading Group or Goldman as i-banking analyst?
- Thread starter carl1111
- Start date
the only options company i consider to be comparable to DRW in terms of size and quality of their traders is susquehanna. i would definitely take their offer. all others would have to be on a case by case basis. depends on their training program and then how much independence they give when you actually start trading. as a trader though i definitely feel you should give trading a shot. there is no other job like it.
prolly depends on what you want to do. can't you try for a sales and trading position at a top i bank, even if it's not goldman? that's prolly the best of both worlds - prestige, experience, money, location, etc.
between the two, i'd prolly take DRW. i'm not a fan of investment banking - proposals, pitches, hours, etc, etc. i wouldn't want to do that work.
you won't make 150k your first year at goldman. salaries for first year analysts are 55-60k, 5-10k signing bonus, then the annual bonus depends on how good the year was for the bank (very good this year) and how well you did. the very top analysts made 100k, but that's maybe the top 10-15%.
a much more likely salary is prolly 85k or so.
between the two, i'd prolly take DRW. i'm not a fan of investment banking - proposals, pitches, hours, etc, etc. i wouldn't want to do that work.
you won't make 150k your first year at goldman. salaries for first year analysts are 55-60k, 5-10k signing bonus, then the annual bonus depends on how good the year was for the bank (very good this year) and how well you did. the very top analysts made 100k, but that's maybe the top 10-15%.
a much more likely salary is prolly 85k or so.
How hard do you think it is to succeed at a trading firm like DRW or Susquehanna? I scored 800 on SAT math, graduated in 3 years near the top of my class at a premier undergrad business school, and obviously have an i-banking position at goldman. Do you think that I could adapt to trading and succeed? Again, to describe the program more specifically, it is as basically a trainer trainee. I would learn about how they gather news and information and also spend time on the trading desk with mentors that first year. After that, I would be a junior trader making actual trades, and obiously after that a regular trader. This firm trades options based on volatility, and they do not take big positions. Thus far I have been successful in everything I have tried, but I know that that means nothing in trading. This is why I am skeptical to turn down a place like Goldman, where I have already worked and done well for a summer.
to actually succeed at any trading company is very hard. how smart you are really doesnt matter though it probably helps. i've seen bonafide geniuses fail miserably and been amazed by complete idiots making bank. it seems to me that the most important characteristics of people who are successful traders is their hard work ethic and sheer burning desire to want to trade. essentially, how bad do you want it?
for options, i consider susquehanna far and away the best. i actually feel group one's training program is good, i just dont think overall their status is of the caliber of DRW. Wolverine is solid. i dont know enough about cutler to say decisively but i think they have a good one. Hull was awesome but i think they are owned by goldman now. i dont really have a lot of experience with peak6 people so i cant say. certainly there are other companies that will train you good, these are just some of the bigger ones i know and think are good.
fair enough. which do you think is harder to get in to though. investment banking at a place like goldman or a good trading firm like the ones you just mentioned. which opportunity is more compelling in your opinion. also, what is your status in the industry? did you trade for a solid trading firm and start from the bottom?
Carl -
I spent 5 years trading options in NY, and have friends who still do the same. I also have friends at the I-banks. I would say that, out of 10 friends in each field, only 1 of the traders is now making as much (and he has made a lot more) as the bankers. It's as simple as that. Trading is hard, and there are a lot of variables in trading over which you will have very little control.
You're obviously a smart guy, and if you did well during your summer position and received an offer, Goldman obviously thinks that you can do a good job for them. You have the banking skills, so now you just have to work hard, and odds of success are fairly decent.
With that said, it's not trading, and if you want to trade, you'll regret working at Goldman. But based on the odds, Goldman is a no-brainer decision. Two years there and you have an excellent resume and you can essentially start over. If you still want to trade, best case someone takes you right out of Goldman, worst case you go to b-school for 2 years and then get back into trading at a bank or fund or whatever.
So my vote is Goldman. If you decide that you really want to trade, you at worst delay that career path by 4 years. Seems like a long time to you now, but it isn't in the end. If you go to a trading firm now, spend 2 years there, the firm goes under, their strategy dies, or you just don't make any money, etc - you'll have a much much harder time making it back to where you can start today.
Good luck.
I spent 5 years trading options in NY, and have friends who still do the same. I also have friends at the I-banks. I would say that, out of 10 friends in each field, only 1 of the traders is now making as much (and he has made a lot more) as the bankers. It's as simple as that. Trading is hard, and there are a lot of variables in trading over which you will have very little control.
You're obviously a smart guy, and if you did well during your summer position and received an offer, Goldman obviously thinks that you can do a good job for them. You have the banking skills, so now you just have to work hard, and odds of success are fairly decent.
With that said, it's not trading, and if you want to trade, you'll regret working at Goldman. But based on the odds, Goldman is a no-brainer decision. Two years there and you have an excellent resume and you can essentially start over. If you still want to trade, best case someone takes you right out of Goldman, worst case you go to b-school for 2 years and then get back into trading at a bank or fund or whatever.
So my vote is Goldman. If you decide that you really want to trade, you at worst delay that career path by 4 years. Seems like a long time to you now, but it isn't in the end. If you go to a trading firm now, spend 2 years there, the firm goes under, their strategy dies, or you just don't make any money, etc - you'll have a much much harder time making it back to where you can start today.
Good luck.