he was down 10% just a few weeks ago, now 24%
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aelEnkvIESkg&refer=home
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aelEnkvIESkg&refer=home
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Joe Meriwether going under?
- Thread starter Daal
- Start date
LTCM founder does it again 10 yrs later.....blows up.
the interesting thing here is although Bear Stearns is`nt affiliated with him this time...........it was BSC that was in the most trouble with LTCM & left holding the brunt....& were bailed out in `98 by the fed/banks in a lst ditch effort according to Roger Lowenstiens book "when genius failed"...........Deja Vu all over again......as Yogi would say.
the interesting thing here is although Bear Stearns is`nt affiliated with him this time...........it was BSC that was in the most trouble with LTCM & left holding the brunt....& were bailed out in `98 by the fed/banks in a lst ditch effort according to Roger Lowenstiens book "when genius failed"...........Deja Vu all over again......as Yogi would say.
Quote from Chriz:
Yeah Deja Vu. First Niedernhoffer and now Merriwether.
Excellent Book BTW.
Niederhoffer was an idiot.
He sold out-of-the-money puts on the S&P 500 futures contract and held them for several days of -200 down days, until his clearing firm "took him out" of the trade on the following Tuesday, buying the puts back and literally marking the bottom.
A friend of mine at Deutsche Bank made $45 million that day selling the puts back to his clearing firm.
It was his best day ever multiplied by 9.
Quote from Landis82:
Niederhoffer was an idiot.
He sold out-of-the-money puts on the S&P 500 futures contract and held them for several days of -200 down days, until his clearing firm "took him out" of the trade on the following Tuesday, buying the puts back and literally marking the bottom.
A friend of mine at Deutsche Bank made $45 million that day selling the puts back to his clearing firm.
It was his best day ever multiplied by 9.
you have no idea what your talking about.
surf
Quote from marketsurfer:
you have no idea what your talking about.
surf
you sugar coated this entire story & even refuted it when Pabst broke it here...............turned out he was right.
so,what are you denying here....that OTM puts were written by VN?.i`m sure Landis is not that far off ,if at all.
Quote from marketsurfer:
you have no idea what your talking about.
surf
Really now?
Please feel free to "enlighten" me because I will enjoy making a fool out of you with your explanation of what you believe "actually" happened . . .
In the meantime, here is the guy ( Mike Goodwin ) that was the #2 equity derivative trader at Deutsche Bank that took the "other side" of almost half of Niederhoffer's S&P put liquidation in a classic "vulture" trade worth $45 million.
http://www.bluefintrading.com/
I look forward to your "twist" on reality, Surf.
http://bespokeinvest.typepad.com/bespoke/2008/03/you-dont-help-u.html
You Don't Help Us Out, You Get Sold For $2
Ironically, Bear Stearns was the lone big investment bank that declined to participate in the Long-Term Capital Management bailout with the New York Fed. From Wikipedia:
Goldman Sachs, AIG and Berkshire Hathaway offered then to buy out the fund's partners for $250 million, to inject $4 billion and to operate LTCM within Goldman Sachs's own trading. The offer was rejected and the same day the Federal Reserve Bank of New York organized a bail out of $3.625 billion by the major creditors to avoid a wider collapse in the financial markets.
The contributions from the various institutions were as follows: $300 million: Bankers Trust, Barclays, Chase, Credit Suisse First Boston, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, J.P.Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Salomon Smith Barney, UBS
$125 million: Société Générale
$100 million: Lehman Brothers, Paribas
Bear Stearns declined to participate.
In the book When Genius Failed, which gives a detailed account of the fall of Long-Term Capital Management (LTCM), there is a conversation between John Meriwether and an executive from Bear Stearns where the Bear executive sadly explains to his friend why he thought LTCM was finished. He says, "When you're down by half, people figure you can go down all the way. They're going to push the market against you. They're not going to roll [refinance] your trades. You're finished." Sound familiar?
Two dollars a share in JP Morgan stock is pretty much a slap in the face as far as a buyout goes. Did the NY Fed, JP Morgan and other banks working on the deal this weekend have 1998 on their mind when ultimately deciding Bear's fate?
You Don't Help Us Out, You Get Sold For $2
Ironically, Bear Stearns was the lone big investment bank that declined to participate in the Long-Term Capital Management bailout with the New York Fed. From Wikipedia:
Goldman Sachs, AIG and Berkshire Hathaway offered then to buy out the fund's partners for $250 million, to inject $4 billion and to operate LTCM within Goldman Sachs's own trading. The offer was rejected and the same day the Federal Reserve Bank of New York organized a bail out of $3.625 billion by the major creditors to avoid a wider collapse in the financial markets.
The contributions from the various institutions were as follows: $300 million: Bankers Trust, Barclays, Chase, Credit Suisse First Boston, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, J.P.Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Salomon Smith Barney, UBS
$125 million: Société Générale
$100 million: Lehman Brothers, Paribas
Bear Stearns declined to participate.
In the book When Genius Failed, which gives a detailed account of the fall of Long-Term Capital Management (LTCM), there is a conversation between John Meriwether and an executive from Bear Stearns where the Bear executive sadly explains to his friend why he thought LTCM was finished. He says, "When you're down by half, people figure you can go down all the way. They're going to push the market against you. They're not going to roll [refinance] your trades. You're finished." Sound familiar?
Two dollars a share in JP Morgan stock is pretty much a slap in the face as far as a buyout goes. Did the NY Fed, JP Morgan and other banks working on the deal this weekend have 1998 on their mind when ultimately deciding Bear's fate?