job market is grim, particularly if u r 50+

Fortune 500 execs "overpay" and throw jobs to their - golfing buddies (big one), frat buddies, military buddies, board of directors or political connection's relatives or just people that give them a nice quid pro quo, etc. - all the time.

Big bidness sure isn't immune to crony capitalism in the USA. I don't think it's because of "progressive thinking".

Just couldn't let that one slide. LOL.

Interesting thread tho.

Quote from EMRGLOBAL:

Lots of people overpay for all kinds of things. Kudos for charging a premium rate and getting it, but your customers likely could have received cleaning services for < half of what you charged. (Businesses overpay regularly.. justified by the fact they can "write it off").

Running a mop and vacuum cleaner shouldn't be a $70K/yr job anywhere... lots of folks with Masters degrees don't get that... and they can spell "cat'.
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Once again, it amazes me the kind of Progressive Thinking that goes on with this site.

The poster stated he started the company. Thus, 35 per hour. He is a Entreprenueur. He can charge whatever he wants and the "Markets" will set the true wage. His performance may be 2x that of a "Half Price" person. The business have a CHOICE to stay with him or go cheaper.

I do not know any PRIVATE BUSINESS that pays more because they can write it off. That is the dumbest fucking thing I've heard...but it does not suprise me as ET is full of "non" business owners and non-traders.

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Edit: blah, blah,blah :)
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Quote from nooby_mcnoob:

I'm so fucking tired of hearing this bullshit from people. YOU MAKE YOUR OWN SECOND CHANCE. AND THIRD CHANCE. AND FOURTH CHANCE.

I'm not lucky that I'm well off, I work fucking hard for it with struggle after struggle where most people give up and just go work at McDonalds and complain about their job and lack of second chances. And no, my struggle is not limited to "my mom doesn't love me."

Your quote is what is fucking wrong with society right there.

Your parents should kill themselves for bringing up someone who is so fucking defeatist.
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This thread is about people 50+ years in age for whom the job market is grim. If they use their capital to start a business and fail, there likely will not be a well-paying job that they can find to rebuild their capital and try again. Plan B will be working at a McDonalds or Walmart or maybe worse, living under a bridge and collecting recyclable bottles and cans to earn money. Before anyone rushes out and tries to beat the odds, they need to assess the consequences of the odds beating them.
 
Exactly.

Get small until you turn around.

Best of luck. The way I see it, the economy is turning around despite the politicians and the bankers.

The new tech boom is only in its nascent stages. It's going to be big.

Don't bet against America(ns). :)

Quote from QQQBALL:

Touching.

Been in same biz for over 25 years. This economy is very tough. Fees are literally below 1980's levels when expenses were much lower. Working twice as hard for less and deadlines are very short. It is going to be very hard to get ahead in this economy - particularly for people that are deep in debt and lived beyond their means. I am doing well now b/c I grew-up poor and have that deep fear from my childhood, and because I am frugal. If I make less, I spend less, if I make more, I do not up my lifestyle much, I just invest more. I sold my investment R.E. from 2004-2007 and own the casa F&C with some rental income from othyer units on the property. No debt, NO CC bills, - one child is finishing up college this quarter and the other is covered and doing very, very well, but having only one child in college for another 4-5 quarters is actually a relief even though I can afford it. Believe me, when things dumped in 2008, it was a bad time to have two kids living away at major universities, but I had prepared and had very low overhead and living expenses, and I got very competitive on my fee quotes and fortunately I picked up a great client in early 2008 and they now provide 75% of my (which is in a way scary too, but I can get by from other clients if need be).

This thread started out talking about people over 50, which includes me... If you told me my fees would be lower now with 25 years experience than they were in the 1980's, I'd have said you were nuts. Its not just me, its industry-wide. A lady that worked for me in the early 1990's and went out on her own successfully for like 15 years, just took a job at a larger company on fee-split arrangement. Let me tell you, there are loads of qualified people out there and the fee splits are LOW. Margin squeeze if you have your own biz. Tough times.

So hard work, persistence and drive are definite pluses, but right now there is not enough work to go round and a 55+ guy getting laid off in a depressed industry has my empathy... Compound interest really works in your favor if you start early. Someone who is 55 with limited savings, big mortgage, kids in college, etc., is in an ugly spot.

My advice to all, for what it is worth, is to live below your means, work hard and invest. I would avoid debt unless it provides really strong leverage/high yields w/o too much risk and is non-recourse.

One other thing - some of the jobs mentioned here are unskilled labor that can be eliminated. You can do your own pool, gardening and clean your own casa. I do not know of anyone in my area paying $50/ to $100/hora to have their house cleaned. Maybe $50 to $75 for the whole house, but not that much per hour. No way, not here anyway.
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Quote from nooby_mcnoob:

I was only responding to the guy with the attitude. I didn't mean to include you. I know that once you are over 40/50, you are done these days. If you need only a second chance at 40/50, I envy the sheltered life you have lived so far.
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I know you didn't mean me - no offense taken.

Been through a few cycles and had ups and downs and looking back its hard to see that I was "sheltered". I can tell you, I was the guy that got in really early and stayed until everyone else had gone home. My first job in this industry was great - the harder you work, the more money you earn - what a concept! Seriously, the thing about living below one's means, being frugal and investing is a game changer. You start early, compound interest really works for you, and you can absorb losses better with time to learn from your mistakes.

As I said, I have 2 children and the "general" employment prospects are much tougher now (IMO) compared to when I graduated.

The one thing I have tried to teach them is to think critically and independently.
 
I'm surprised that in a trading forum I have yet to see any mention of turning to trading professionally. I've been working on my trading skills for some time and for the last couple years I have been achieving consistent results that can now replace much of my income (and growing while I'm still working), and that's enough because my wife and I have been living below our means for years.

I work in IT and for years my company has been laying off, especially in the US (they are hiring overseas at much lower rates) and squeezing as much as they can out of those of us left in the US. Well the writing is on the wall and I'm looking forward to being laid off because I'm done with this industry and done with looking for another job that I don't want where I will be asked to work 60 or more hours but paid for 40. Trading is not so different than any other endeavor. With hard work and persistence success can be achieved.
 
look at this way

with trading and investing you could be doing this at at 90 years old

so ify ou aer 30 years of age you 60 years ahead of you.

look at buffet he is 80 years of age...

one of the best daytraders is 75 years of age. been daytrading for 30 years,,not a losing days for 30 years. and doesn't use any automated trading strategies..all manual trading. no computer assisted trading. CAT

Quote from dwpeters:

I'm surprised that in a trading forum I have yet to see any mention of turning to trading professionally. I've been working on my trading skills for some time and for the last couple years I have been achieving consistent results that can now replace much of my income (and growing while I'm still working), and that's enough because my wife and I have been living below our means for years.

I work in IT and for years my company has been laying off, especially in the US (they are hiring overseas at much lower rates) and squeezing as much as they can out of those of us left in the US. Well the writing is on the wall and I'm looking forward to being laid off because I'm done with this industry and done with looking for another job that I don't want where I will be asked to work 60 or more hours but paid for 40. Trading is not so different than any other endeavor. With hard work and persistence success can be achieved.
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Quote from dwpeters:

I'm surprised that in a trading forum I have yet to see any mention of turning to trading professionally... [/QUOT

Because people who are 50+ years of age and unemployed with no job prospects are generally scared and scared money never wins.
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Quote from QQQBALL:

I know you didn't mean me - no offense taken.

Been through a few cycles and had ups and downs and looking back its hard to see that I was "sheltered". I can tell you, I was the guy that got in really early and stayed until everyone else had gone home. My first job in this industry was great - the harder you work, the more money you earn - what a concept! Seriously, the thing about living below one's means, being frugal and investing is a game changer. You start early, compound interest really works for you, and you can absorb losses better with time to learn from your mistakes.

As I said, I have 2 children and the "general" employment prospects are much tougher now (IMO) compared to when I graduated.

The one thing I have tried to teach them is to think critically and independently.
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I'm with you. I hope your kids take some of your experience to heart.
 
Quote from dwpeters:

I'm surprised that in a trading forum I have yet to see any mention of turning to trading professionally. I've been working on my trading skills for some time and for the last couple years I have been achieving consistent results that can now replace much of my income (and growing while I'm still working), and that's enough because my wife and I have been living below our means for years.

I work in IT and for years my company has been laying off, especially in the US (they are hiring overseas at much lower rates) and squeezing as much as they can out of those of us left in the US. Well the writing is on the wall and I'm looking forward to being laid off because I'm done with this industry and done with looking for another job that I don't want where I will be asked to work 60 or more hours but paid for 40. Trading is not so different than any other endeavor. With hard work and persistence success can be achieved.
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This is one reason I turn to trading too. I did freelance IT work for many years. Things changed after the tech crash but there were still jobs. Now, there is almost nothing for folks my age where I am. I want something I can do at 70 or 90 as long as I have decent health.
 
I have mixed feelings about jobs. I was looking for a painter to paint my house. Ironically, the lowest anyone wants to go is $35 an hour (I mean real painters with experience). Most want around 40+. Now, just about anyone can paint with a few hours of training. These same people then complain that they do not have enough work.

I completely understand the need for people to have to make at least 35+ an hour to make a living wage, after all most of the middle class is getting crushed by:

1. Property Taxes
2. Insurance (Overpaid Doctors, Nurses, Lawyers)
3. Big Government at local, state and federal level
4. Unnecessary wars

Looking above, we all pay for these unproductive money drains, hence, the inflated prices for services rendered. Unless, the taxes are down, insurance is down, service prices cannot go down, and we will not be competitive.

As far as starting a new business goes, try doing it. I just came from an average bar and a glass of beer cost me $7 with tip. Now, I could have had the same beer at home for $1. Do I think the bar is ripping people off, not really, they have too many expenses to meet and on the top of that list are the property taxes and insurance that is crushing all businesses.
 
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