Job Fight: Immigrants vs. Locals

Quote from TheDudeofLife:

http://it.truveo.com/Charlie-Rose-November-15-1994/id/117474832


"What is the good of having an economy which grows by 80% if your unemployment – people excluded from active economic life – goes from 420,000 to 5.1million?”

“You go and you create a corporation in China. And you build a factory in China. And what do you want to sell, mugs? You sell mugs in China. And you conquer part of the Chinese market by competing fair and square in China. That’s life. That’s adding to the activity of China. You’re a corporate citizen over there, you’re working over there.”

“But if you move a factory from the States and take that to China, not so as to conquer the chinese market but so as to re-import the goods into the States, so as to get cheap labor, what are you doing? What you are doing is you are saying to your employees here, ‘You’re too expensive, folks. You want money. You want protection. You want unions. You want holidays. Forget it! We can employ 47 people over there (for each one of you) who want nothing.’”

“So, don’t confuse 2 issues. One is going out to participate in their growing economies by building there and conquering part of the market. The other is merely killing off employment in your own country, getting rid of your own labor force – transferring it over there and importing it back – purely so as to increase your profit margins.”

“Now, the average company has about 25% of it’s costs in labor costs, including the social costs, the welfare costs around it, 25%. When you move – 25% of volume, that is – you, all of a sudden, can save over 25%, so your profits go leaping up. But you’re destroying – totally destroying – not only the number of people who’ve got jobs but also their salaries.”

“Now, you realize that salaries in the States – earnings, weekly earnings, hourly earnings over the last 20 years – have already dropped about 19% in real dollars. It’s already been a massive decline and that is why the so called recovery – which is a recovery of economic indexes – hasn’t got the feel good factor because people’s salaries have gone down. They’re gonna go down much more. It’s only beginning and the reason is very straightforward.”

“When you manufacture something, anything – this table – you have a value added. The value added is when you take the raw materials and you manufacture a product. Value you add is known as value added. And that is shared between capital and labor. And the whole division – the sharing of that – has been the subject of massive debates for generations. How much should go to capital? How much should go to labor? You’ve had strikes, you’ve had lockouts, you’ve had political debates.”

“All of a sudden, by creating a global marketplace for labor, by creating circumstances where people are making the same product with the same technology for the same capital and the only variant is cost of labor, you are shattering that – shattering the way you share the value added and that means that you are destroying the basis on which we’ve been able to create an equilibrium and have a stable society.”

“I am entirely for free enterprise. I am for free markets. I’m not for the destruction of one’s society.”

“The economy is there to serve the fundamental needs of society, which are prosperity, which are stability, and which are contentment. That is the basis of my thinking. And what I’m saying at this stage is that if, purely for an economic doctrine, you have a situation whereby the economy grows but you create poverty, unemployment, and you destabilize the society, you’re in trouble.”

“Look what’s happened in the last 50 years. You see, people are not willing to look at fundamentals. When I was a boy we were taught that irreversibly we were moving towards progress. That material wealth, material prosperity would solve our problems, would improve our way of life, and improve our civilization. We were taught that. And we achieved the creation of material prosperity in a way which we would never have dreamt of. We made the economy grow 400%. Incredible! And what have we done? We destabilized our society. We’ve increased unemployment massively. We’ve totally destabilized our cities. We’ve uprooted our countryside. We’ve increased crime. Every single viable criteria for a stable society has become negative. Therefore, something must be wrong. And what has become wrong is that instead of the economy being there to serve us, we are there adoring, serving economic indexes.”

“The facts are that people who benefit are big major corporations. There is a divorce between the interests of major corporations and of society. When one used to say and believe – and probably rightly – what is good for General Motors is good for the United States. That is no longer true. Today the transnational corporations have annual sales of $4.8trillion. They account for 1/3 of all – the top alone account for 1/3 of – direct investment. Now how do they operate? They’re no longer linked to the United States, the american ones, or to France or to Britain. They operate by farming out their production to whatever company produces the cheapest labor, wherever they can get the biggest return on capital, and pay the lowest part to labor.”

“Firstly, it started with the textile industries, and the shoes, and those industries were decimated. We lost millions of employment, of people employed. Secondly, it was followed by the high tech industries. And as I say in the last few months we’ve had those. Thirdly, the service industries – these are facts – the service industries, they’ve been moving offshore. There are satellites up there. If you take Swiss Air. Swiss Air has moved part of its back office into Bombay. Why? Because they can communicate through the satellites and reduce their costs by 95%.”



BLAH BLAH BLAH

Check your garage and household items and how much of it is made in China.. People will not buy more expensive american stuff..

I ust bought a liquid force KITEBOARD , and its made in Saudi Arabia.
 
Quote from pupu:

As someone who worked many years in the financial services industry in NYC I can also attest that most IT staff in these companies have been replaced and outsourced by Indians, Chinese and East Europeans/Russians despite a willing and available American supply of workers. I've also seen this happening in the big accounting firms here.

As someone who worked in the same industry, I can attest that you are incorrect. Contractors/consultants, yes. But most of the people I worked with were not as you described. Also, many of those "Indians, Chinese and East Europeans/Russians " you talk about are US citizens or longtime perm residents.

Secondly, jobs taken by "immigrants" is a lot better than if the work was offshored, at least the earnings would be spent mostly in the USA.
 
Quote from pavlov0032:

Thats a free market economy - they doing cheaper. How can you argue with free market?

It's not cheaper, it's just that the quality is lower. In some cases, it ends up being more expensive.
 
Quote from TraderZones:

As someone who worked in the same industry, I can attest that you are incorrect. Contractors/consultants, yes. But most of the people I worked with were not as you described. Also, many of those "Indians, Chinese and East Europeans/Russians " you talk about are US citizens or longtime perm residents.

Secondly, jobs taken by "immigrants" is a lot better than if the work was offshored, at least the earnings would be spent mostly in the USA.

Absolutely, I am a good example. I am an immigrant working as an Accountant (educated in the US) and a US citizen too.

What do you say about that?? I think outsourcing is worst as you well mentioned.
 
Quote from pavlov0032:

BLAH BLAH BLAH

Check your garage and household items and how much of it is made in China.. People will not buy more expensive american stuff..

I ust bought a liquid force KITEBOARD , and its made in Saudi Arabia.

read it, learn it, live it.


"Look what’s happened in the last 50 years. You see, people are not willing to look at fundamentals. When I was a boy we were taught that irreversibly we were moving towards progress. That material wealth, material prosperity would solve our problems, would improve our way of life, and improve our civilization. We were taught that. And we achieved the creation of material prosperity in a way which we would never have dreamt of. We made the economy grow 400%. Incredible! And what have we done? We destabilized our society. We’ve increased unemployment massively. We’ve totally destabilized our cities. We’ve uprooted our countryside. We’ve increased crime. Every single viable criteria for a stable society has become negative. Therefore, something must be wrong. And what has become wrong is that instead of the economy being there to serve us, we are there adoring, serving economic indexes"
 
Quote from volente_00: What state are you in ? $20800 after federal taxes leaves you $19423 or $1494 every 4 weeks.
Maryland, one of the highest tax states out there, and not just income tax. I don’t know how you came up with $1494, but I can assure you, it will be a lot less than that. But with $1494, give an example of how to live on that. Be specific, no generalities please.
Quote from volente_00:
How old are you ? Your health insurance is way to high. You can get a policy from Unicare or BCBS for way less than that. I am at least 10 years older than you and pay $130 with dental insurance included.
I’m 24. My insurance is with Carefirst BCBS. I got it 6 years ago and it was $160 then. It is an HMO with a dental plan, but not dental insurance, and the highest co-pay’s possible. If I opted for the $10 co-pays, I imagine it would be $3-400 a month. I don’t believe you when you say your’s is $130. You must be leaving something out.
Quote from volente_00:
Food seems a little on the high side. Oatmeal for breakfast and tuna/turkey/chicken sandwiches are your friend. If you must eat out, find a mexican food place and the smaller ones will sell individual tacos for less than $2. Order water, eat the free chips and dip, and leave a dollar tip, you can even add a side of beans or rice for a $1. Total meal cost you 3 to 4 bucks with a tip.
After working in a restaurant for years, I can honestly say we hate the people that you describe. Not so much but because they are so cheap and abuse the system, but because they waste our time that we can be spending helping another customer that actually appreciates our services.

$300 a month is $10 a day. That gives me one meal at McDonald’s for $5 and $5 for everything else during the day. I don’t think that is unreasonable.

Again, people like you try to make every reason why people should sacrifice and give up more and more so that the Man can take and take from them. Food prices have exponentially increased in the past few years, and your solution is not to fix high food prices, but to tell people to cut back their lifestyle.
Quote from volente_00:
Housing: Get a roommate
Right now I have 3 roomates, they are called Mom, Dad, and sister, and rent is free, for now. I am like most 18-30 year olds who have to rely on parents. In fact, I know more people my age who live or rely on their parents, than those who don’t. Awhile ago I put up a challenge here on ET after trying to argue that it is much harder for a young person to get ahead now than 30 years ago. I said if I got 10 names of people who are under 30 who own a house and put at least 10% down and can comfortably afford it, then I would admit that I am a lazy Socialist who thinks everything is owed to me and haven’t been able to get ahead because I haven’t worked hard enough for it. I fully expected to be throughly bashed by everybody and proven wrong. But on the contrary, I got one response. Just one.
 
Quote from pavlov0032: Thats a free market economy - they doing cheaper. How can you argue with free market?
Gee, I don’t know. Where I have you been for the past couple of years? Banks giving billions in loans to people who blatantly don’t qualify. How about credit card company’s tripling interest rates on those that have paid on time for years. Is that your idea of a free market working efficiently for the consumer? How about oil going to $147 then crashing to $30 in 6 months. Do you know how many people’s lives that screwed up? There was nothing fundamentally that justified that. You people are quick to point to the free market as the solution to everything, but never have any solutions for when it is abused.

The one good thing about outsourcing, is that soon those company’s that outsourced so many jobs, are going to wake up and realize they have no business because nobody is buying their products because nobody has any money, because their good job got shipped to China, or was filled by an immigrant who just sends the money back to their country. I guess that’s when they’ll get a bailout.
 
Quote from jueco2005:

Absolutely, I am a good example. I am an immigrant working as an Accountant (educated in the US) and a US citizen too.

What do you say about that?? I think outsourcing is worst as you well mentioned.

Exactly. Some people speak before engaging brain on this forum. It is easier to give opinions and try to impress others, until they call you out on those opinions.

He is so far off it is not funny.
 
Quote from Sandybestdog:

I’m 24. My insurance is with Carefirst BCBS. I got it 6 years ago and it was $160 then. It is an HMO with a dental plan, but not dental insurance, and the highest co-pay’s possible. If I opted for the $10 co-pays, I imagine it would be $3-400 a month. I don’t believe you when you say your’s is $130. You must be leaving something out.




A far cry from $272 like you claim.


http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehi/Quote.fs?mcei.html.screen++.IFPOverview.row:8.x=1





If you switch to ppo or network you can get some for 100 -115.




Minimal housing: $500
Utilities: $100
Health insurance: $100-150
Co-Pays and prescriptions: $50
Food: $275
Transportation: $200 120 gas 60 liability 20 maint
Phone: $50
Clothes: $50
Household items: $100

total $1475




40 x 10 x 52 = 20800


Of that 5450 of standard deduction and 3500 for 1 exemption.


That leaves you 11850 taxed at 10% and the rest at 15 for a total tax liability of $1377.


20800 - 1377 = 19423


19423 / 52 = $373 weekly

373 x 4 weeks = 1492


1492 - 1475 above leaves you $17 to buy some beer.
 
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