jesus is god......lmao

[ARogueTrader]

Discussions of God require more than your ACCEPTED RULES OF REASON AND EVIDENCE.

The problem is that the tools you are using to determine evidence and reason are by themselves limited and imperfect in nature, and God is unlimited and perfect by definition.

As you said previously, it is a game for you. You are not a seeker of truth, truth seekers always seek outside the box of the intellect and senses, as they know the senses and intellect are limited.

If you were given up for adoption by your parents as an infant, and raised as a ward of the state because no one would have you, would finding your parents be just a game for you?

p.s. Civil argumentation would go a long way to engaging serious debate. I have yet to see you, or any of the other persecutory atheists do so.

Quote from LongShot:

i didn't formulate these rules! we shall apply standard accepted RULES OF EVIDENCE & REASON!

Agreed?!!

 

[LongShot]

Quote from ARogueTrader:

Discussions of God require more than your ACCEPTED RULES OF REASON AND EVIDENCE.

The problem is that the tools you are using to determine evidence and reason are by themselves limited and imperfect in nature, and God is unlimited and perfect by definition.

As you said previously, it is a game for you. You are not a seeker of truth, truth seekers always seek outside the box of the intellect and senses, as they know the senses and intellect are limited.

If you were given up for adoption by your parents as an infant, and raised as a ward of the state because no one would have you, would finding your parents be just a game for you?

p.s. Civil argumentation would go a long way to engaging serious debate. I have yet to see you, or any of the other persecutory atheists do so.

if not reason what tool do you propose we use?

 

[ARogueTrader]

If human beings were pre-programmed computers then reason, digital logic, and relativistic logic would be our only tools.

If we were animals we would have pure instinct to rely upon.

However, man is more than reason and logic or instinct.

If you think differently, you lack common sense.

Quote from LongShot:

if not reason what tool do you propose we use?

 

[LongShot]

Quote from ARogueTrader:

If human beings were pre-programmed computers then reason, digital logic, and relativistic logic would be our only tools.

If we were animals we would have pure instinct to rely upon.

However, man is more than reason and logic or instinct.

If you think differently, you lack common sense.

Ok, but what are we to use to gain leverage on the Truth? Surely you aren't suggesting instinct??

 

[ARogueTrader]

We have defined truth as that which does not change, yet we use a mind that changes all the time to come to that conclusion.

Human consciousness is constantly in flux, from the varied states of waking, to deep sleep, to dreaming, to your case of frequent intoxication.

If we want to find non changing truth, we must find non changing consciousness first.

We would laugh at a scientist who used instrumentation in his measurements that was as unstable as human consciousness, yet that is ultimately where our conclusions come from.

So those who build their castles of truth on anything less than unchanging consciousness, are just practicing religion of some sort.

You will of course poo poo this concept, but in fact it is the starting point for any real search for truth, i.e. non changing instrumentation.

Those who attempt to divorce themselves of the human condition, without perfection of the human condition first, are illogical at best.

Quote from LongShot:

Ok, but what are we to use to gain leverage on the Truth? Surely you aren't suggesting instinct??

 

[LongShot]

Quote from ARogueTrader:

We have defined truth as that which does not change, yet we use a mind that changes all the time to come to that conclusion.

Human consciousness is constantly in flux, from the varied states of waking, to deep sleep, to dreaming, to your case of frequent intoxication.

If we want to find non changing truth, we must find non changing consciousness first.

We would laugh at a scientist who used instrumentation in his measurements that was as unstable as human consciousness, yet that is ultimately where our conclusions come from.

So those who build their castles of truth on anything less than unchanging consciousness, are just practicing religion of some sort.

You will of course poo poo this concept, but in fact it is the starting point for any real search for truth, i.e. non changing instrumentation.

Those who attempt to divorce themselves of the human condition, without perfection of the human condition first, are illogical at best.

we are to use "unchanging consciousness"? Ok, define this term or state.. what is "unchanging consciousness" and where do we find it?

 

[ElCubano]

Quote from LongShot:

Ok, but what are we to use to gain leverage on the Truth? Surely you aren't suggesting instinct??

FAITH......once again no need for proof.....you either have it or you dont....why must we go round in circles.....you cant prove that he doesnt exist just as much as Rogue cant prove he does What seprates the both of you on this issue....FAITH... need there be 500 pages of debate when in fact no one of you can prove anything.....awww must be FAITH which, once again, needs no proof....

How does one love?? when love cant be proven either...is it there?? it sure feels like it.....but can science prove it???

Much love to all you mo fucks in this up and coming new year....

 

[LongShot]

Quote from ElCubano:

FAITH......once again no need for proof.....you either have it or you dont....why must we go round in circles.....you cant prove that he doesnt exist just as much as Rogue cant prove he does What seprates the both of you on this issue....FAITH... need there be 500 pages of debate when in fact no one of you can prove anything.....awww must be FAITH which, once again, needs no proof....

How does one love?? when love cant be proven either...is it there?? it sure feels like it.....but can science prove it???

Much love to all you mo fucks in this up and coming new year....

you mean just believing something makes it true? seems pretty simple i will agree but how can you rely on it? people believe in many things, many beliefs contradict their neighbor's beliefs, how can two antithetical beliefs both be true? doesn't make [common]sense does it?? :eek:

 

[ARogueTrader]

Do you understand the term "changing consciousness?"

Quote from LongShot:

we are to use "unchanging consciousness"? Ok, define this term or state.. what is "unchanging consciousness" and where do we find it?

 

[LongShot]

Quote from ARogueTrader:

Do you understand the term "changing consciousness?"

you'd better explain please it just to insure we are on same page.