Jesus Christ (What Christians, Jews, and Muslims Say About Him)

how nice and obtuse.

Prove:

What is the plan for non believers in the after life.

Just because dante talks of a fiery inferno does not mean that is what the bible says will happen to all non believers.

Prove: God does not give people a chance to elect to be with him after death.

God is most likely outside of time - before, after, eternity are all probably meaningless.
 
Quote from jem:

how nice and obtuse.

Prove:

What is the plan for non believers in the after life.

Just because dante talks of a fiery inferno does not mean that is what the bible says will happen to all non believers.

Prove: God does not give people a chance to elect to be with him after death.

God is most likely outside of time - before, after, eternity are all probably meaningless.
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God [is most likely] , outside of time - before, after, eternity are all probably meaningless.

Who wudve thunk it.
Your position is just 3 words and a comma between us being in complete agreement.
 
Quote from riskfreetrading:

Here is what Quran says about the Pharaoh (I copied it from the web, so I do not know whether it is the correct translation and whether it is complete. Let us assume it is).


NOTE: the first "I" refers to Pharaoh.


"I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel have believed; I am a submitter.Too late! For you have rebelled already, and chose to be a transgressor. Today, we will preserve your body, to set you up as a lesson for future generations. Unfortunately, many people are totally oblivious to Our signs." Quran (10:90-92)



If this guy (Pharaoh) is found and preserved, it will prove that Moses's account is correct, and that the Quran is correct as well, as it is making a prediction which would be amazing if it is realized.
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Indeed, our friend the Pharaoh was found preserved. Do you know where he was found? Take your shot now before I give you the answer. God is giving a punch to the nose of the atheists/nonbelievers, because you will be at awe when you know where he was found.

Quran and Moses are right! What do you have to show all you guys who do not believe in sacred texts particulary Quran and the words of Moses?

All the atheists and deniers of God, and his prophets have just got a hit on their balls.
 
Quote from stu:

.... megalomania is such a grand thing.
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Nah. Megalomania is such a grandiose thing.
I am saying "the universe" is the expression of megalomania.
I am saying *the Kingdom* is the reality of GrandeuR.
The choice is between grandiOsity and GrandeuR.
Grandiosity arrogantly denys GrandeuR.
Grandiosity belittles and distributes along a heirarchy.
How else could it compete with true GrandeuR?
In megalomania-ville, the little manage to justify arrogance.
GoD created all equal and GranD.
What is more arrogant than to deny who you are as GoD created you?
What is more arrogant than a knat knashing its teeth at the universe?

Christ!:D
 
Quote from riskfreetrading:

Quran and Moses are right! What do you have to show all you guys who do not believe in sacred texts particulary Quran and the words of Moses?
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I'm baffled. Perhaps you could dazzle me?

Christ!
 
Quote from stu:

God [is most likely] , outside of time - before, after, eternity are all probably meaningless.

Who wudve thunk it.
Your position is just 3 words and a comma between us being in complete agreement.
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More confirmation that catholicism and athiesm are two nails in the hand of the same executioner.

Christ!
 
Quote from vhehn:

The Christian Scriptures, in John 3:16 to 18 states: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

This implies that anyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ will be condemned. [/url]
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No, this implies that anyone who does not believe in Jesus' Christ is condemned already.

This is not talking about believing in what people say about Jesus. It's believing in what Jesus said about Reality [Christ]. What Jesus said about Christ is the "good news" gospel. What people say Jesus said, is the "gospel" that maintains condemnation as a kind of salvation.

People don't understand what "condemnation" means. Let me give an example. If a witch turns a prince into a toad, she has condemned him. And when it is measured to the witch as she measured it out, the witch becomes a toad too.

Likewise, all who are participating in the world have belittled the perfect Son of God since before the foundation of the world, and have been measured as they have measured. Existence in the flesh is its own worst punishment and constitutes self "condemnation".

This is the earliest understanding of "the gospel". Though not fully comprehending it, Peter passes on what he gathered to be true:

"For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does."

The condemned don't realize that to appear in the flesh is to be a walking dead man. Flesh walks around. But it is not truly alive. The flesh is "born to die". And the dead are reborn [reincarnation]. So, the dead are not dead, and the alive are not living. This is like a curse. It is the effect of magically combining life and death, as if both could be known to be real within the same realm.

It is for undoing this curse that the truth of Christ comes to "save".
Jesus was saved by the truth, and "preached" true salvation to any of the already self-judged who would believe.



Christ!
 
Quote from vhehn:

This implies that anyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ will be condemned.

Since the Christian Scriptures only talk about two eventual resting places after death -- Heaven and Hell, one might conclude that anyone who does not believe in Jesus and the Trinity will spend eternity in Hell.
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Many have concluded that. But they are confused. And they are bound by their own conclusions. Here is a better understanding:

"The universe" is the dead Son of God.
"The universe" is not anything that is really alive.
"The universe" is "hell".
The only thing happening in hell is the crucifixion of the Son of God.

Choice led into hell, so choice leads out.
There has always been a choice.
The "gospel" is the truth that empowers choice.
The choice is to stay or leave.
Jesus left.
Those who want to stay want Jesus to come back and make hell more heavenly.
That's like asking that crucifixion be made more comfortable.
How? Drugs?

The distribution of different bodies along continuums of good and evil is hell. In heaven, there are no bodies, for the sole purpose of the body is to set apart as different and special. And this is what betrays and crucifies the Son of God.

The true gospel is what motivates the condemned to get up off their a$$ets and go back to where they came from: Spirit and Truth and Life and Grandeur and Equality and Power. The already condemned are imprisoned by the confusion that their choices led to. The gospel gives them the keys to freedom.

The gospel empowers true choice: the choice between truth and illusion. The gospel gives true choice to those who don't understand that their choosing is an illusion of choice...so it is not choice at all...it is slavery. The gospel is about the choice between power and powerlessness, between freedom and slavery, between LifE...and what masquerades as "life".

Christ!
 
Quote from stu:

You're rationalizing a fictional story. Pontificating over a fairy tale. Asking and answering your own questions ....
was Robin Hood a hero ? Of course.

All Mr. Walker need do is bring forth the common knowledge that it's a good idea to make a plot work even in a fairy story. He does exactly that.
You don't need scholars to see how the Isaiah tale and Bible stories in general, just do not hang together. Ridiculous, contradictory and nonsensical Biblical old folk lore story telling is rather obvious.

Some people like Mr Walker show the nonsense of the tale and some people like certain Theists or Robin Hoodists or yourself , then put ridiculous spin onto all the fancy and make-believe to try and remedy awful failures in those story's plots. Ok but bottom line, it’s still only a story of pretence.

To then convince oneself from all that spin and subterfuge that those fictional tales in Robin Hood or the Bible are actually true , well that's another thing altogether. Understanding psychosis might be a more useful read in those circumstances.
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Well, as they say, you can lead a horse to water.....but you will loose the debate that there is, indeed,water.

A couple thousand years of exegesis, and a web site guru spins tails to suit his bias, and I am the one that has no understanding ? Priceless.
 
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