Jesus Christ (What Christians, Jews, and Muslims Say About Him)
- Thread starter riskfreetrading
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You are using the concept of mathematical reflexivity if defining the concept of God. A programmer will write as a recursive function.
A problem with your definition/thoughts are that we do not have an initial condition, and nothing to test whether what you write is correct or not.
A problem with your definition/thoughts are that we do not have an initial condition, and nothing to test whether what you write is correct or not.
Here is what Quran says about the Pharaoh (I copied it from the web, so I do not know whether it is the correct translation and whether it is complete. Let us assume it is).
NOTE: the first "I" refers to Pharaoh.
"I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel have believed; I am a submitter.Too late! For you have rebelled already, and chose to be a transgressor. Today, we will preserve your body, to set you up as a lesson for future generations. Unfortunately, many people are totally oblivious to Our signs." Quran (10:90-92)
If this guy (Pharaoh) is found and preserved, it will prove that Moses's account is correct, and that the Quran is correct as well, as it is making a prediction which would be amazing if it is realized.
NOTE: the first "I" refers to Pharaoh.
"I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel have believed; I am a submitter.Too late! For you have rebelled already, and chose to be a transgressor. Today, we will preserve your body, to set you up as a lesson for future generations. Unfortunately, many people are totally oblivious to Our signs." Quran (10:90-92)
If this guy (Pharaoh) is found and preserved, it will prove that Moses's account is correct, and that the Quran is correct as well, as it is making a prediction which would be amazing if it is realized.
The gOd [idol] of this world is intelligent, even ingenious, insofar as it perfectly functions to decieve. It is the lord-of-words [think: "tower of Babel"], and uses them to break the natural communion of inter-Kingdom-of-GoD reality. In fact, it is the lord-of-thinking, which is different from the way GoD really thinks.
So, "gOd" is the ruler of "the universe", besides which, it claims, there "is no other". If it cannot dazzle you with delusions, it will baffle you with bullsh#t. It has a trillion tricks up its sleeve to decieve. Logical arguments are gOd's domain. In it's domain, a reasonable treatise on truth can not be more than equal the logic of the lawless one. So you must choose, not by strength of argument, but by a will to know again what you have long since tossed away for crumbs off the table of the gOd-of-empty-stomachs.
"gOd" is the lord of humans, the designer of the man-machine. The man-machine merely thinks as gOd thinks through him. So, man "knows not" what he does. He is a slave. gOd is also a slave...to your own wishes. But having wished for gOd, you have now been taken hostage...just as the Hebrews were taken hostage [think: Stockholm syndrome, Patty Hearst syndrome] and made to do its bidding.
Man is programmed, and runs programs [scripts] that date back to before the foundation of the world. The world is the playing out of scripts [think: old testament]. So, it is like a stage play. It's a set up. The scripts are evil, but they are somehow regarded as "sacred" and "holy". Rather, they are an unending set of conflicts that distract from the truth, keeping your attention focused on what is not real as if it is real. [symbol: Israel]
The gOd of this world dazzles with prophecy. It can do this because it is the author of the scripts that play out in the world as events and circumstances and disaster. Because it writes the scripts, it can trick you with "prophecy". There is really only one script "gOd" runs: the crucifixion of the Son of God...the mangling of Truth beyond recognition.
You do not need to be a slave to the gOd of humans. It is nOt the true GoD, *Our Father*, the GoD of Spirit and Truth. Look at "gOd" carefully, and think again if this is what you desire. Look at gOd's fruits. Look at what it does with the intelligence you have loaned to it. Look at all the human suffering over thousands of years. Look at the 15,000 wars over the last 5,000 years. Think again what you now desire.
Choose again.
Choosing rightly, you are truly "chosen".
All other "choices" are not choices at all.
Other choices are scripts...a multiple choice script.
This is not a choice at all.
The choice is between slavery or freedom.
Your choice.
To be or not to be, that is the question.
Be Lord, or be a hoard.
Be One, or be many.
Christ!
The initial condition is perfection. The Son of God is perfect. The minute you try to add to perfection, you start taking away from perfection. "The universe" is the Son's impossible attempt to add to his own perfection.
So,
What is more than total knowledge? Ignorance.
What is more than truth? Lies.
What is more than life? Death.
What is more than omnipotence? Powerlessness.
What is more than love? Fear.
What is more than freedom? Imprisonment.
What is more than everything? Nothing.
"The universe" is an attempt to have both everything, and more than everything. As the attempt is made, everything is "sacrificed" for nothing. So "the universe" is the *sacrifice* of the Son of God. It strips him of his perfection and glory, and mocks his Lordship. Mocking him, it also mocks his Father, and makes blasphemy "natural". Far from natural, "the universe" is the expression of all that is unnatural. It could never be "reality" except to parade itself as such. And as such, it is entirely conceptual...what I will call the *immasculate conception*. It is hypothetical from beginning to end. So it stands on a foundation of "sand". It's moments are the sands of time opposing the plans of eternity.
"The universe" is imagined. So it is an image...a *graven image* in the mind of the Son of God, if it is anything at all. So it is an idol, and everything in it is in the image of the idol. In this way, "the universe" desecrates the holy "temple" [mind] of the Son of God, and would destroy it were it actually "real". Man is the engine of destruction, idols all, tools of an idol. The many destroys the One as the "one loaf" is "broken for the many". "The universe" is the image of the crucifixion of the Son of God. The end of time is the end of the crucifixion. Time is really finished already. So, the crucifixion is finished. Time is dead, and so is its "gOd". It only seemed to "live" as eternity died. But eternity cannot die. So salvation is "today"...now.
Perfection has what I'll call *attributes*. If you are good at pattern recognition, you can percieve a recurring pattern in the making of "the universe". It is sometimes called "duality", or, the mixing of opposites at extremes along a continuum.
The combination of opposites is an impossibility in Reality. So to accomplish the impossible, unreality is made by magic. As such, "the universe" is a product of *sorcery*. It is "black magic" because confusion is darkness.
Every attribute of perfection has been mocked [faked] and given an opposite. The opposites are then placed at extremes and placed along continuums. This makes for chaos and confusion. Such is the foundation of "the universe". The net effect is a joke to be laughed at.
Take the attribute of freedom for example.
When freedom is mocked and mixed with limitation, it expresses in many ways. For example, if one is willing and able to drive from LA to New York, he is considered "free". What a joke! That is not true freedom. Consider that the one who drives is programmed by gOd to drive from LA to New York on such and such a day. Now it becomes quite obvious that the "free" man is really a slave.
When freedom is mixed magically with limitation, the expression plays out as a world in which there is a prison in every major city, outside of which live the "free". The apparent difference seems to indicate that one group is truly free, while the other is truly limited. But this too is a farce. Both groups are decieved into slavery, and both are freed by the truth. The truth is both groups are free, whether they believe it or not.
So magic makes for many paradox which only go to confuse.
These patterns are ubiquitous throughout "the universe".
So, "the universe" is perfectly imperfect...by design.
As such, it is what it is.
Accept it as it is.
Do not make it what it is not.
The perfect cannot be fixed.
Be glad it is perfect for what it is: imperfection incarnate [symbolized].
It is an oxymoron.
It is a paradox.
It is a confusion.
It is nOt real.
The way you think makes it real for you because you think like gOd your maker.
Change your mind means change which mind you think with.
Will you think with gOd's mind, or,
will you think with GoD's mind?
One choice.
Your choice.
Christ!
I would recommend testing what I say with what you observe in the world. As you begin to recognize patterns, and see them occuring over and over, you will begin to develop trust. That's about as scientific as it gets. When you fully agree that the world is what I say it is, and are willing to let it go, you are ready for the Kingdom of God. "Proof" is forthcoming with the will to agree with Reality, and desire to see it and be it. The testing period may take some time and contemplation.
The initial condition of Reality is perfection, and remains the same despite the imposition of "the universe". The initial conditions of "the universe" are found in circumstances of the world. In other words, "the universe" is a mind reiterating initial thoughts over and over again in various ways. Those thoughts evoke feelings which keep recurring over and over again in the world.
The initial thought was separation [ie. divorce, differences, division, abandonment, special status, inequality, parting, good-byes, secession, torn apart, kicked out]. As that thought was *judged* to be the truth about the Son of God, the initial feeling was the feeling of loss. With the loss came the feeling of guilt, and then the feeling of fear and anger and blame. This led to the concept of defense and hiding, which led to the making of the physical [symbolic] dimensions. "The universe" was made out of a sense of necessity, as if to survive impending disaster. In this sense, "the universe" was made as a kind of shelter, or, *salvation*...the solution to an imagined problem.
These emotional themes are played out over and over again in the world until the initial cause is examined in the light of truth. Only as the initial cause of "the universe" is examined can it be let go as a whole lotta psychological trickery. In this way, the world ends where it began. If the genesis is not addressed, the initial feelings are looped through scripts that conjure up those feelings again. It seems as though circumstances cause the feelings. But actually, the feelings are causing the circumstances of the world.
This is why you can examine just about any circumstance in the world and see a parable of the genesis of the world. The crucifixion of Jesus was a parable/parody intentionally designed to point to the genesis of the world. If one can accept that the world begins with an attack on GoD...an attack on the Truth...an assault on the Son of GoD, then one can begin the process of ending the world. When each one ends the world for himself, he wakes up as Jesus woke up. The symbol of waking is the resurrection.
What needs to "die" is "gOd", which infects the mind of the Son of God like a viral meme. Once welcome, the desire for gOd must die that the true GoD may be the Truth. The truth about gOd is gOd is an extra GoD. It is the idea that there is more than GoD. GoD is GooD. What is more than GooD? So, gOd is the idea of a heirarchal tyrant. Note well: everything in "the universe" is ranked by some kind of heirarchy. This is simply nOt the truth.
I sometimes call the extra gOd "egO". This is the gOd of the "big O". It offers the illusion of love for a price. The "big O" is like hitting heroin. So gOd is like one who offers sex for pay. So, "the universe" is like a fantasy that you "pay to play". To play, the Son of God sacrifices everything for nothing, and then get's hooked. Every "O" asserts the existence of the gOd of the "big O". "O gOd! O gOd! O gOd!". And when sh#t happens it's "oh my gOd!" So gOd is a rollercoaster ride of feelings.
Everything gOd is, so is "the universe". "The universe" is within the mind of the Son of God as a parasite is in the brain of a man. "The universe" is a grandios egO in the mind of the Son. Likewise, every man has "an ego". The ego must die. It must be starved of it's food. Jesus "died" when he starved out his ego, and identified with Christ instead.
As Christ, Jesus was not any particular individual or any thing. All people and things are masks over the face of Christ. The reality of everything is Christ. Christ is everything. Everything is not different from anything. So everything is without the egO gOd. The egO is about separation. Believe it or not, what is separated cannot live. So when the egO is "killed", Christ may live as "one"...as he was created...LiFe itself.
Christ!
You're rationalizing a fictional story. Pontificating over a fairy tale. Asking and answering your own questions ....
was Robin Hood a hero ? Of course.
All Mr. Walker need do is bring forth the common knowledge that it's a good idea to make a plot work even in a fairy story. He does exactly that.
You don't need scholars to see how the Isaiah tale and Bible stories in general, just do not hang together. Ridiculous, contradictory and nonsensical Biblical old folk lore story telling is rather obvious.
Some people like Mr Walker show the nonsense of the tale and some people like certain Theists or Robin Hoodists or yourself , then put ridiculous spin onto all the fancy and make-believe to try and remedy awful failures in those story's plots. Ok but bottom line, itâs still only a story of pretence.
To then convince oneself from all that spin and subterfuge that those fictional tales in Robin Hood or the Bible are actually true , well that's another thing altogether. Understanding psychosis might be a more useful read in those circumstances.
Quote from riskfreetrading:
1. The probability that God (or higher intelligence) exists is higher than non existence (at least given out state of knowlege at this point in time).
2. Since we may be dealing with God who may reward and/or punish, it is safer to believe in God since if he does not exist we lose nothing, but if he exists we have a free insurance policy against hell, and free ticket to happy after life.
3. To "buy" the insurance policy, you need to follow a religion or religions. That is why you have to read the sacred books, and if you are not happy maybe even create your own to worship God. Since it costs only belief, then it is relatively risk-free.
Conclusion: believing in god has a infinite reward/risk ratio. One would be dumb not to take the trade,independent of the probability of existence of God.
Believing in god is a long term investment. You should now be able to see that one should calculate even in matters of religion, which is in contrast with what general people may think of religious people. They think that they are religious because they are weak. Review you thinking one more time my friend if you happen to worship an atheist. Your risk/reward with the atheist is lousy, plus we know that the atheistism is created by humans who we already know cannot save themselves because they are rotting in a grave, and will not be back (at least in our life time on earth).
so. your "proof"that a god exists is nothing more than a pascals wager argument? that is so easily refuted that it doesnt take much of a thinker to see through it.
For such a simple concept, Pascal's Wager has one enormous number of weaknesses and contradictions. Some are listed below.
Weaknesses #1 -- Is believing in God sufficient for salvation?
Pascal seems to assume that those who believe in God will be automatically rewarded be attaining Heaven, whereas those who disbelieve in God will automatically spend eternity in Hell. i.e., simply believing in the existence of God guarantees ones "salvation." But different religions, (and different traditions within certain religions) have very different criteria for salvation. Many require that a person do more than simply believe in the existence of God. Passages in the Bible, interpreted literally, seem to imply that salvation is dependent:
solely on good deeds.
solely on faith.
on faith plus the act of baptism.
on repentance.
on faith, coupled with good deeds,
etc.
T.M. Drange describes this in greater detail. He wrote: "According to the Bible, more is required for salvation than mere belief in God. One also needs to:
Believe in God's son (Mark 16:16; John 3:18,36, 8:21-25, 14:6; Acts 4:10-12; I John 5:12),
Repent (Luke 13:3,5),
Be born again (John 3:3),
Be born of the water and of the Spirit (John 3:5),
Believe everything in the gospel (Mark 16:16),
Eat the flesh of Jesus and drink his blood (John 6:53),
Be like a child (Mark 10:15), and
do good deeds, esp. for needy people (Matt. 25:41-46; Rom. 2:5-10; John 5:28-29; James 2:14-26)." 7
Weaknesses #2 -- Which God must we believe in?
Pascal apparently assumed that one either believes in God or one didn't. But the situation is more complex that than. Consider both Christianity and Islam:
The Christian Scriptures, in John 3:16 to 18 states: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." This implies that anyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ will be condemned. Since the Christian Scriptures only talk about two eventual resting places after death -- Heaven and Hell, one might conclude that anyone who does not believe in Jesus and the Trinity will spend eternity in Hell.
The Qur'an is the Holy Book of Islam. Sura 69:15-18: "On that Day shall the (Great) Event come to pass. And the sky will be rent asunder, for it will that Day be flimsy. And the angels will be on its sides, and eight will, that Day, bear the Throne of thy Lord above them. That Day shall ye be brought to Judgment: not an act of yours that ye hide will be hidden.
Sura 69:30 -33: "(The stern command will say) "Seize ye him, and bind ye him. And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High."
Now, if one interprets these passages literally, then:
Christians generally believe in the Trinity of God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit. But if Christianity is wrong, and Islam is correct, then Allah will punish the Christian believer with horrendous tortures.
Meanwhile, Muslims believe in the single, indivisible deity Allah, who is very different from the Christian Trinity. If Islam is wrong, and Christianity is correct, then the Christian God will torture all Muslims for eternity without any hope of mercy or a cessation of their pain.
"This is often described as the 'avoiding the wrong hell' problem." 3
Actually, the problem is even more complex than is indicated above. There have been countless deities among the tens of thousands of religions in which people believe or have believed. The Fararrs have written a pair of books that list 1,000 Gods and 1,000 Goddesses. 8 Many of these Gods and Goddess are jealous deities who demand worship from their followers and who punish those who do not believe in them. The probability of choosing the right God or Goddess is chancy at best.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/pascal_w.htm
http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/nogod/pascal.htm