Jesus Christ (What Christians, Jews, and Muslims Say About Him)

[NeoRio1]

Quote from riskfreetrading:

1. The probability that God (or higher intelligence) exists is higher than non existence (at least given out state of knowlege at this point in time).
2. Since we may be dealing with God who may reward and/or punish, it is safer to believe in God since if he does not exist we lose nothing, but if he exists we have a free insurance policy against hell, and free ticket to happy after life.
3. To "buy" the insurance policy, you need to follow a religion or religions. That is why you have to read the sacred books, and if you are not happy maybe even create your own to worship God. Since it costs only belief, then it is relatively risk-free.

Conclusion: believing in god has a infinite reward/risk ratio. One would be dumb not to take the trade,independent of the probability of existence of God.



Believing in god is a long term investment. You should now be able to see that one should calculate even in matters of religion, which is in contrast with what general people may think of religious people. They think that they are religious because they are weak. Review you thinking one more time my friend if you happen to worship an atheist. Your risk/reward with the atheist is lousy, plus we know that the atheistism is created by humans who we already know cannot save themselves because they are rotting in a grave, and will not be back (at least in our life time on earth).

Honesty! You told me more in your last post than I am has in the last week.

I disagree with #1 because you don't know that.

#2 and 3 is nowhere near evidence but very honest to say the least.

 

[I am...]

Quote from NeoRio1:

In two sentences how do you know there is a god?

Desire to know [nOt believe] GoD [not "gOd"] with "all your heart, mind and soul".
Desire to know [nOt believe] your neighbor as your Self [nOt your self-concept].

Christ!

 

[NeoRio1]

Quote from I am...:

Desire to know [nOt believe] GoD [not "gOd"] with "all your heart, mind and soul".
Desire to know [nOt believe] your neighbor as your Self [nOt your self-concept].

Christ!

Wow i really want to know god so he definitely exists because I want him too. BS!

Wow i really want to empathize with my neighbor so therefore there is a god. BS!

I am almost convinced you write all this shit to deter people from the belief in god.

Shut up and learn some honesty like riskfreetrading.

 

[I am...]

Quote from riskfreetrading:

I do not think God cares about the rituals, but rather about the aim behind the rituals: the belief and the good deeds.

An idol lives or dies upon the belief of it's maker.
gOd is an idol in your mind, made by you, for your own rationale.
The gOd of this world needs your belief, so it cares.
The gOd of this world needs your actions, based on belief in it.

Quote from riskfreetrading:
Since it costs only belief, then it is relatively risk-free.

The risks of believing in an idol are thousands of lifetimes of suffering.
The idol "gOd" is capable of fooling otherwise intelligent minds for a thousand incarnations is a world which offers nothing but suffering with a few "good times" in between to keep the party going.
Your intelligence level in this cycle indicates you have a chance to overcome deception in this cycle.
But the odds are in favor of gOd this time around, indicated by your trend toward superstition.
If you do not get it right this time, when will your next chance come?
Death sets you free of nothing.
Betting something favorable will happen because of death is just mindless shilling for the gOd of death.
Truth sets you free from the cycles of death...the so-called "life-cycle".
Only truth will set you free.
Believing in a lie binds you to hands and feet and defeat.

Freedom requires an intense desire to be free, and intense self-honesty.

Choose again.

Christ!

 

[TraderZones]

Quote from jem:

many of vhehn's - previous arguments have also been contradicted by fact.

He is running out of games. Soon he will start telling you the flood story is wrong because there was no worldwide flood

Interestingly, many jewish scholars deny that the words they used in the bible mean worldwide.

(which is why I was talking about lawyered up.) Its hard to pin down.



Another favorite is he tries to pin on believer is that he thinks believers must argue the earth is only 5000 years old.

I have never read anywhere in the bible that the earth is only 5000 years old.

I learned to put vhehn on ignore a long time ago. His posts have the rigidity of a rubber band.

 

[TraderZones]

Quote from riskfreetrading:

I do not know who wrote the Quran, as it has no author, but from the writing it is God who is speaking. That is why I got interested in reading it. If I am able to prove that the Quran contains something wrong, then it is easy to disquality the Quran and Islam.

Quran contains prophecies, and all of them that I have checked are correct. I am particularly amazed by "the prophecy" describing the formation of the fetus. Not only it is accurate, but it is more accurate than science has discovered recently.

So who ever wrote the Quran possesses more knowledge. Again I do not know who is the author, and I do not care to know who the author is, but the Quran disqualifies from its writing Mohammed as the writer. All what I care about is about the message in it. If I cannot contradict it, and the Quran asks its reader to contradict it, then I must listen or I must shut up.

I have not seen any religious book that tells you that if you think that the text you are reading is wrong, then provide a proof that it is wrong. Since it contains descriptions of scientific natural phenomena, then we have multiple opportunities to have a shot at disproving the Quran. So could you read the Quran and find something that you can prove where the Quran is wrong based on science?

I also like the 5 books of Moses because he givse a detailed black and white description of things. Therefore I can test them against scientific knowledge of today. I however have not tested the accuracy of the 5 books of Moses yet.

Moses writes that God put the soul in humans by breathing in humans from the nose. I do not know if we can test this, but I am eager to know if this is true or not.

I am telling you that despite what you may have heard about Muslims, the Quran is amazing. Do not be put down by the description of the unbelievers, and all of that. My understanding is that an unbeliever is someone who already knows the truth but goes against it in a malicious way. Someone searching for truth is definitely a believer, or believing another religion is definitely not an unbeliever.

Belief and practice are 2 different things. I am a believer, but I do not practice the rituals. I do not think God cares about the rituals, but rather about the aim behind the rituals: the belief and the good deeds.

I got interested in reading the Quran, after reading the writings of John Adams. He read the Quran multiple times as he was impressed by Muhammed. He even got the Quran printed in the US in his state (Massachusetts). The first version of the Quran in the US was published in Springfield Massachusetts, and John Adams (One of the Founding Fathers) read it. We all know that John Adam was the most intellectual and legalist of the founding fathers.

Your idea if defending the Qu'ran is ignoring what I said in reply? Why don't you start with what I said, rather than professing it has no author.

 

[riskfreetrading]

Quote from I am...:


The risks of believing in an idol are thousands of lifetimes of suffering.

This guy is way in a world of his, which I respect because it shows he thinks.

I want however to say that I am not believing in an idol. I believe only in God, conditional on that he exists and that he is the God who should be believed, and that he requires that we believe in him, in particular to earn the reward, and avoid the risk.

So there are a lot of conditions in the background on my mind and belief which God should know if he exists and is knowlegeable.

You see, I got many things covered in presence of uncertainty.

 

[I am...]

Quote from NeoRio1:

Wow i really want to know god so he definitely exists because I want him too. BS!

Wow i really want to empathize with my neighbor so therefore there is a god. BS!

I am almost convinced you write all this shit to deter people from the belief in god.

Shut up and learn some honesty like riskfreetrading.

I just gave you the keys to the Kingdom.

But confusion still rules your mind.

I just told you that desire to know [nOt believe] is the key.

And with good reason.

The reason you do not know is because of the desire to nOt knOw KnowledgE.

This is an effect of the desire to know more than the totality of everything.
More than everything is...nothing
"The universe" is...more than everything.

That is why you seem to be a little person in a universe in which Knowledge is obliterated, and there is nO evidence of anything that actually does Know. You have given the universe to yourself, of your own desire to have it so. And you are in denial of that fact. Now you are stuck because you think you must have evidence before you will desire to know anything.

So you've got it backwards. The law of GoD states that you must be given what you ask for. You have asked for confusion, and the universe is the answer. You still desire confusion, so you are not yet accepting the answer as it is given. So you are not accepting my answers either. To you, your questions are "straight" and my answers are what, wicked? This is a legacy of the mindset that makes for itself a "reality" that is backwards and upside down the Truth.

I'll say it again. Your will is KING. Even if you made a false will that is not your own, that will is still KING as long as you want it. You have been given all power "in heaven and on earth". This means you are free in both truth and illusions to be or experience as you please. If will were not King, there would be something else that is Lord over you. The truth is, there is no Lord over you, not even *Our Father*. That is why it is called the KINGDOM of GoD. There are ONLY KINGS in the KingdoM of GoD. In the KingdoM, you are "LorD oF LorDs". For ALL ARE LORDS in ThE KinGDoM of GoD. Your appearance "on earth" does not change this fact.

As long as you desire a will other than your own, the symbol of another will ["the universe"] will be your king. You are in denial of this, and you are using "the universe" to deny it. So the universe teaches you a trillion ways in which you cannot possibly be the Lord of it. Rather, it teaches that it is lord over you. This is backwards by YOUR OWN ANCIENT PRAYER [desire] TO BE DECEIVED.

"The universe" is playing for keeps, while you twiddle your thumbs. It wants to be your king. It wants to bury you. It wants to keep you in the dark and block your way out with a big stone [evidential circumstance of matter].

Think of "the universe" as a closed mind with a sign on the outside, "Truth, Keep Out". So, the Truth stands at the door and politely knocks. You have placed "evidence" at the door, that Truth not be welcome to enter. So, welcome...to "Hotel California".

Christ!

 

[riskfreetrading]

Quote from TraderZones:

Your idea if defending the Qu'ran is ignoring what I said in reply? Why don't you start with what I said, rather than professing it has no author.

What you seem to have understood is not what I meant, or you are mispresenting what I wrote if you understood what I wrote in the sense I meant it.

I only wrote what I believe I understood from reading the Quran. Only by reading it yourself, you will reach your conclusion about what the Quran says or does not say. It is not my business to sell to you any sacred book or to get you away from any sacred books. If you believe in God or do not believe in him, it is matter between you and him.

Could you please restate you question as I am not sure I understood your question?

You have to understand that my analysis of the bible of today does not imply that everything in the bible is not correct. It is rather the non-correct things (which we know) which makes one not able to determine what is true in it and what is not.

The aspect in the bible which I felt would be correct and in any case good to humans is the focus on love as an important part of human life.

My discussion of the Quran is due (as I wrote before) to the aspects of it in which it states facts that can be proved or disproved, and tells the reader to challenge it. That aspect has no equivalent in other sacred books. We know that humans have doubts about God, truths, anything written, etc. When there are such safeguards in the Quran, it invites the reader to lock his horns with the horns of whoever claims is being God. Either one's doubts win, or they get crushed with facts (or at least reduced).

As for the authorship, I seriously do not know whose words those are. The important thing for me is the message. If a human came up with the words, that human must have received divine assistance or assistance from some other extra intelligence. Those predictions in there are amazing in accuracy, so I cannot just put them under a rug and ignore them because any logical mind cannot if he agrees with the conclusions.

 

[I am...]

Quote from riskfreetrading:

This guy is way in a world of his, which I respect because it shows he thinks.

I want however to say that I am not believing in an idol. I believe only in God, conditional on that he exists and that he is the God who should be believed, and that he requires that we believe in him, in particular to earn the reward, and avoid the risk.

I appreciate your candor. As you reveal what is currently topmost in your mind, it becomes evident that you are worth-shipping [worshipping] an idol. You are highly valuing what you made with your own mind - "gOd" - and are currently bowing down to what you made yourself.

You do not admit that "gOd" is something you made because you made it to deny your own GoD-given Knowledge. The desire to deny is still stuck to you...in your mind. This yeilds an experience of ignorance. The experience of ignorance is one of suffering. It lasts as long as ignorance is a priority for you. It won't last forever. So, why not save time and possibly a thousand years of suffering by confessing [fess up] to what you have made?

The idol that is "gOd", exists conditional upon your belief. So you can bet your last dollar that it demands your belief. It's continued survival depends on it. So it will get it by book, hook or crook. It's mode of operating is carrot and stick. Rewards and/or punishments. Beware, or be decieved.

The "gOd" of "the world" is made by fiat of belief. Whose belief is powerful enough to make something that can make the universe and hold it together by faith? The Son of God has such power, and this power belongs to you, even now, because you are the Son of God.

You are in denial that you are the Son of God, and you are using "gOd" to prove it. So, while you are really LorD of gOd, you bow down to gOd as your LorD. And this is how you maintain the illusion of Self-denial.

Rather, "know thy Self".

Christ!