no. you dont have to be a muslim to understand that the jesus story was manufactured. there may have been a jesus. nobody knows for sure because there is do direct evidence outside the bible that he lived but the so called miracles that christians point to to make him devine were myths.
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Jesus Christ (What Christians, Jews, and Muslims Say About Him)
- Thread starter riskfreetrading
- Start date
the one that claims there was once a talking snake.Quote from Barth Vader:
Hmmm.....It seems you guys have your own dogmatics, priests, corporate organization, donation requests/ fund raising, and standard rules of conduct complete with moral judgements.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/howto.html
Oh, I'm sorry....which religion were we speaking about ?
lol. dont tell mey you actually believe the bible creation story?Quote from Barth Vader:
Thanks.....They all tend to get jumbled together....I thought we were talking about the one that states we were evolved from snakes.
Is there an intelligent man or woman now in the world who believes in the Garden of Eden story? If you find any man who believes it, strike his forehead and you will hear an echo. Something is for rent.
-- Robert Green Ingersoll
Quote from vhehn:
lol. dont tell mey you actually believe the bible creation story?
Is there an intelligent man or woman now in the world who believes in the Garden of Eden story? If you find any man who believes it, strike his forehead and you will hear an echo. Something is for rent.
-- Robert Green Ingersoll
[Note to self: While debating vhehn, try to remember Father Carriers' sermon on what tactics an atheist should use when debating and / or trying to convert a theist]
If by "Garden of Eden story" you mean the "work of creation", all seven days, then YES, I do "actually" believe it.
If you are true to Father Carriers' admonition to be honest in your dealings with others, then I would assume your agreement with my following statement....Neither one of us can "know" whence we came from.....
I cannot "know" because creation took place before Adam...but I have the witness of the order and design inherent in our reality..
You cannot "know" because evolution took billions and billions of years, and was not observable......and your theology is still in search of the "reason" ...
I would assume you are in agreement with the statement of your great High Priest:
"..........reason, observation, and experience; the holy trinity of science..."
Robert Green Ingersoll
we dont yet know exactly how we came but we do know it was not the way the bible writers claimed. that we can test. evolution is observable through the traces it left.Quote from Barth Vader:
[Note to self: While debating vhehn, try to remember Father Carriers' sermon on what tactics an atheist should use when debating and / or trying to convert a theist]
If by "Garden of Eden story" you mean the "work of creation", all seven days, then YES, I do "actually" believe it.
If you are true to Father Carriers' admonition to be honest in your dealings with others, then I would assume your agreement with my following statement....Neither one of us can "know" whence we came from.....
I cannot "know" because creation took place before Adam...but I have the witness of the order and design inherent in our reality..
You cannot "know" because evolution took billions and billions of years, and was not observable......and your theology is still in search of the "reason" ...
I would assume you are in agreement with the statement of your great High Priest:
"..........reason, observation, and experience; the holy trinity of science..."
Robert Green Ingersoll
The notion that faith in Christ is to be rewarded by an eternity of bliss, while a dependence upon reason, observation and experience merits everlasting pain, is too absurd for refutation, and can be relieved only by that unhappy mixture of insanity and ignorance, called "faith."
-- Robert Green Ingersoll
Quote from vhehn:
we dont yet know exactly how we came but we do know it was not the way the bible writers claimed. that we can test. evolution is observable through the traces it left.
The notion that faith in Christ is to be rewarded by an eternity of bliss, while a dependence upon reason, observation and experience merits everlasting pain, is too absurd for refutation, and can be relieved only by that unhappy mixture of insanity and ignorance, called "faith."
-- Robert Green Ingersoll
Sir, your logic contained in your above statement, seems deficient........
We don't know whence we came, but we are sure it's not how you think we did !!!
The statements or confessions of faith that I read on your referenced link, were , in my opinion, a faith of negativity...the sole dogmatic doctrine is the refutation of others' belief in a power and majesty beyond themselves.....
Contrast the statement of Ingersoll that you included, with the statement of Barth, on creation:
".....Our first emphasis is on this final point that the doctrine of the creation no less than the whole remaining content of Christian confession is an article of faith, i.e., the rendering of a knowledge which no man has procured for himself or ever will; which is neither native to him nor accessible by way of observation and logical thinking; for which he has no organ and no ability; which he can in fact achieve only in faith; but which is actually consummated in faith, i.e., in the reception of and response to the divine witness, so that he is made to be strong in his weakness, to see in his blindness and to hear in his deafness by the One who, according to the Easter story, goes through closed doors. It is a faith and doctrine of this kind which is expressed when in and with the whole of Christendom we confess that God is the Creator of heaven and earth...."
The hate and disdain contained in Ingersolls' credo seems to be missing from that of the great theologian and doctor of Christendom, Karl Barth.
+Quote from Barth Vader:
Sir, your logic contained in your above statement, seems deficient........
We don't know whence we came, but we are sure it's not how you think we did !!!
is it really that difficult for you to comprehend that we do have enough evidence to falsify the bible account?
"Ignorance of Nature gave birth to gods. Knowledge of Nature is calculated to destroy them."
Quote from vhehn:
+
is it really that difficult for you to comprehend that we do have enough evidence to falsify the bible account?
"Ignorance of Nature gave birth to gods. Knowledge of Nature is calculated to destroy them."
I was not aware that they dropped the word "Theory" from macro-evolutionary dogmatics.