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Jesus Camp
- Thread starter hcour
- Start date
Quote from lkh:
That will not happen but i believe education is the answer. It is harder to sell stories of hell and satan to an educated populace.
I do believe it is time to eliminate the tax exemption that churches have. They are abusing that privilege.
well, if you are "educated", you are proof that it says nothing about intelligence.
Einstein believed in God ... MOST highly-intelligent people believe in a God. Many might not follow any religion to the letter, but they clearly have the sense to know that they are not a supreme authority on anything ... Frankly, in my opinion, you'd have to be an idiot to willfully be an Atheist.
Funny, your types, (the ones suggesting banning religion, or curtailing it) are screaming at the tops of their lungs about tracking funds going overseas into terrorist accounts, data-mining known terrorists phone calls, etC ...
Do I have to remind an "educated" person such as yourself WHY EUROPEANS ARRIVED IN THIS LAND IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE?
LIBERALS == Favor Eliminating Religion. Yet another reason to despise them.
we'll never have a perfect world, everyone just needs to get over it, both the 'Jesus Campers' and those who criticize them.
I went to a Catholic grade school and gave confession to a priest who turned out to be a serial homo-pediphile, and molested a kid in my school
He never hit on me though, guess I wasnt cute enough, or perhaps my sins were just too dull - lol!
I went to a Catholic grade school and gave confession to a priest who turned out to be a serial homo-pediphile, and molested a kid in my school
He never hit on me though, guess I wasnt cute enough, or perhaps my sins were just too dull - lol!
Quote from pattersb:
well, if you are "educated", you are proof that it says nothing about intelligence.
Einstein believed in God ... MOST highly-intelligent people believe in a God. Many might not follow any religion to the letter, but they clearly have the sense to know that they are not a supreme authority on anything ... Frankly, in my opinion, you'd have to be an idiot to willfully be an Atheist.
Funny, your types, (the ones suggesting banning religion, or curtailing it) are screaming at the tops of their lungs about tracking funds going overseas into terrorist accounts, data-mining known terrorists phone calls, etC ...
Do I have to remind an "educated" person such as yourself WHY EUROPEANS ARRIVED IN THIS LAND IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE?
LIBERALS == Favor Eliminating Religion. Yet another reason to despise them.
Einstein himself stated quite clearly that he did not believe in a personal God:
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly." Albert Einstein
"LIBERALS == Favor Eliminating Religion. Yet another reason to despise them."
I am not a liberal. I have never voted Democrat in my life. Do we really need to have organized superstition (religion)in this day and age?
I don't support the government taking a position on religion. I only support education of the young so they are better able to resist indoctrination
NO, you bozo, but we don't need the fcking govt getting involved in promoting this bullsht. Faith fcking based initiatives and all the rest of the stupid pandering this administration has done to the religious right. It's dumbing down our culture and our govt.
bt
bt
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:
Well I guess that settles it. Why don't we just repeal the First Amendment and require parents to get approval of Social Services before subjecting their children to any religious instruction?
Or maybe just ban religion all together?
Quote from lkh:
Einstein himself stated quite clearly that he did not believe in a personal God:
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly." Albert Einstein
"LIBERALS == Favor Eliminating Religion. Yet another reason to despise them."
I am not a liberal. I have never voted Democrat in my life. Do we really need to have organized superstition (religion)in this day and age?
I don't support the government taking a position on religion. I only support education of the young so they are better able to resist indoctrination
My apologies if I went off the handle. I've been trying to master that in these forumns.
Einstein has famously claimed to have "Read the mind of God...", "God does not roll dice". The description below certainly could be catagorized as a "religion". For anyone to even think, let alone suggest, that such beliefs be banned or stifled is an affront.
Perhaps, that is why I lose my minds in these forumns from time to time. And maybe, I'm correct to do so.
http://www.ctinquiry.org/publications/reflections_volume_1/torrance.htm
What Did "God" Mean for Einstein?
Early in his life Einstein came to refer to God as "cosmic intelligence" which he did not think of in a personal but in a "super-personal" way, for, as he learned from Spinoza, the term "personal" when applied to human beings cannot as such be applied to God. 12 Nevertheless he resorted to the Jewish-Christian way of speaking of God who reveals himself in an ineffable way as truth which is its own certainty. Spinoza held that "truth is its own standard". "Truth is the criterion of itself and of the false, as light reveals itself and darkness," so that "he who has a true idea, simultaneously knows that he has a true idea, and cannot doubt concerning the truth of the thing perceived." 13 Hence once a thing is understood it goes on manifesting itself in the power of its own truth without having to provide for further proof. 14 Thus when God reveals himself to our minds, our understanding of him is carried forward by the intrinsic force of his truth as it continually impinges on our minds and presses for fuller realization within them.
In this way Einstein thought of God as revealing himself in the wonderful harmony and rational beauty of the universe, which calls for a mode of non-conceptual intuitive response in humility, wonder and awe which he associated with science and art. It was particularly in relation to science itself, however, that Einstein felt and cultivated that sense of wonder and awe. Once when Ernest Gordon, Dean of Princeton University Chapel, was asked by a fellow Scot, the photographer Alan Richards, how he could explain Einstein's combination of great intellect with apparent simplicity, he said, "I think it was his sense of reverence." 15 That was very true: Einstein's religious and scientific instinct were one and the same, for behind both it was his reverent intuition for God, his unabated awe at the thoughts of "the Old One", that was predominent.
Although Einstein was not himself a committed Jewish believer he would certainly have agreed with the call of Rabbi Shmuel Boteach today to restore God himself, rather than halacha, as the epicentre of Judaism. 16
Science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion. To this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason. I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. 17
That statement comes from his 1939 address to Princeton Theological Seminary, but far from being unique, it is reflected in statement after statement he made about science, religion, and God.
Count Kessler once said to him, "Professor! I hear that you are deeply religious." Calmly and with great dignity, Einstein replied, "Yes, you can call it that. Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible concatenations, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in point of fact, religious." 18
Einstein was certainly no positivist. Here are some other statements Einstein made about this.
Quote from pattersb:
My apologies if I went off the handle. I've been trying to master that in these forumns.
Einstein has famously claimed to have "Read the mind of God...", "God does not roll dice". The description below certainly could be catagorized as a "religion". For anyone to even think, let alone suggest, that such beliefs be banned or stifled is an affront.
Perhaps, that is why I lose my minds in these forumns from time to time. And maybe, I'm correct to do so.
http://www.ctinquiry.org/publications/reflections_volume_1/torrance.htm
Its kind of funny that theists have to dig up quotes from long dead people to make their case about god. Is that an admission that they really have no other evidence to point to?
The question remains. Even if Einstein had believed in god would he still believe with the benifit of modern science discoveries today. I think not.
We can all play the quote game:
At a prayer breakfast in 1929, Cardinal OConnell charged that behind Relativity stood the "ghastly apparition of Atheism." A Rabbi immediately sent a letter to Einstein asking him if he believed in God. Einstein replied that he believed in the God of Spinoza. His
definition of God was just another word for Nature and its laws. Einstein did not believe in a superintelligence, the existence of the Trinity, the miracles of Jesus, the immortality of the soul, astrology, or the existence of the supernatural.
Einstein quotes on religion:
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty."
I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic."
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order and harmony of the universe which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly. I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem--the most important of all human problems."
"The main source of the present-day conflicts between the spheres of religion and science lies in the concept of a personal God."
I cannot accept any concept of a God based on the fear of death or blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him I would be a liar."
In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vast power in the hands of priests."
The man who is thoroughly convinced of the universal operation of the law of causation cannot for a moment entertain the idea of a being who interferes in the course of events...He has no use for the religion of fear and equally little of social or moral religion."
I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
Since our inner experiences consist of reproductions and combinations of sensory impressions, the concept of a soul without a body seems to me to be empty and devoid of meaning."
Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."
A child in the sixth grade in a Sunday school in New York City, with the encouragement of her teacher, wrote to Einstein asking him whether scientists pray, and if so what they pray for. His reply:
"Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by the laws of nature...For this reason. a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by prayer, i.e. by a wish addressed to a supernatural being."
Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much of the stories in the Bible could not be true."
What I see in nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism."
Science has therefore been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A mans ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
Einstein remained an unbeliever. After his death in 1955 he was cremated without a religious ceremony.
Quote from peppermint:
I wonder what Jesus said about hating people???
Well, he said this...Mark 16:15-16:
"Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned"
I guess Pattersb is merely following Jesus' instructions and condemning liberals.
Then again, depending on the mood he was in...Luke 6:26:
"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you."
Pattersb is therefore faced with the unenviable difficult task of both condemning/despising and loving lkh at the same time.
Yes, I'm bored and hence my meaningless post here in Politics and Religion.
MoMoney
Quote from momoneythansens:
Well, he said this...Mark 16:15-16:
"Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned"
I guess Pattersb is merely following Jesus' instructions and condemning liberals.
Then again, depending on the mood he was in...Luke 6:26:
"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you."
Pattersb is therefore faced with the unenviable difficult task of both condemning/despising and loving lkh at the same time.
Yes, I'm bored and hence my meaningless post here in Politics and Religion.
MoMoney
...blah, I've taken it upon myself to construct my own religion. I worship squirrels. They are nature's most entertaining creations!