jessie Livermore
- Thread starter daytraderpete
- Start date
Maybe they asked for diamonds so that his profits have to withdrawn and couldn't be reinvested 
i read a couple books / articles on livermore after his reminiscences days. one of them was written in the last few years - by smitten, perhaps?
anyhow...a fair chunk of his money was just given outright to his (former) wife and children. a large amount was spent on his lifestyle / new girlfriend (i forget if she became his new wife).
he mistimed some things, and i remember that his one nemesis - size and insisting he was right - came back to bite him.
also, with the new SEC rules, i believe that impacted his trading, and some of the old things he used to do were no longer applicable. i believe the uptick rule was part of it; he used to say that, when he thought a position was right, he'd put out a feeler...get some shares, and if that was right, would pyramid on. if there's an uptick rule and you've got something with limited upticks, it's much harder to short the shares.
i may go through some old ny times articles to see what they said about him in the 30s...
anyhow...a fair chunk of his money was just given outright to his (former) wife and children. a large amount was spent on his lifestyle / new girlfriend (i forget if she became his new wife).
he mistimed some things, and i remember that his one nemesis - size and insisting he was right - came back to bite him.
also, with the new SEC rules, i believe that impacted his trading, and some of the old things he used to do were no longer applicable. i believe the uptick rule was part of it; he used to say that, when he thought a position was right, he'd put out a feeler...get some shares, and if that was right, would pyramid on. if there's an uptick rule and you've got something with limited upticks, it's much harder to short the shares.
i may go through some old ny times articles to see what they said about him in the 30s...
a few articles of his ex-wife shooting his son, and his hospital recovery. i think one mentioned the robbery at his great neck home.
in 1933, he and durant were supposedly very bullish on stocks.
declared bankruptcy in 1934, and was suspended from cbot.
1936, supposedly active (buying?) cotton and wheat.
great neck estate sold in 1940. however, it was taken over by manufacturers trust in 1935, and had stood vacant until 1940 - sold to satisfy debts from the second mrs. livermore, and sold during the depression, 1933, for 15% of its appraised value. i believe he gave this home to her as part of the divorce settlement?
he also lived full time in at least 2 hotels for years in nyc. from his funeral column:
"four times he piled up huge fortunes which proclaimed themselves in large yachts, special railroad cars, and a luxurious estate on long island. each time he filed a formal petition in bankruptcy, but every time...he paid 100 cents on the dollar to each of his creditors".
and discusses (which i forgot) about how he could make lots of money by managing a pool of stock for a corporation / bigwigs.
i learned a ton from livermore through reminiscences and other things. there's lots to learn - both good and bad - from livermore.
in 1933, he and durant were supposedly very bullish on stocks.
declared bankruptcy in 1934, and was suspended from cbot.
1936, supposedly active (buying?) cotton and wheat.
great neck estate sold in 1940. however, it was taken over by manufacturers trust in 1935, and had stood vacant until 1940 - sold to satisfy debts from the second mrs. livermore, and sold during the depression, 1933, for 15% of its appraised value. i believe he gave this home to her as part of the divorce settlement?
he also lived full time in at least 2 hotels for years in nyc. from his funeral column:
"four times he piled up huge fortunes which proclaimed themselves in large yachts, special railroad cars, and a luxurious estate on long island. each time he filed a formal petition in bankruptcy, but every time...he paid 100 cents on the dollar to each of his creditors".
and discusses (which i forgot) about how he could make lots of money by managing a pool of stock for a corporation / bigwigs.
i learned a ton from livermore through reminiscences and other things. there's lots to learn - both good and bad - from livermore.
As much as his death was very dramatic, I like the way he had no qualms about spending his money or admitting he was wealthy.
The yachts, the homes, the vacations, the clothes, the women, very much like Donald Trump does now.
He seemed to have an arrogant confidence in himself and his style of trading.
DTP
The yachts, the homes, the vacations, the clothes, the women, very much like Donald Trump does now.
He seemed to have an arrogant confidence in himself and his style of trading.
DTP
Kiev in "Trading To Win" has an interesting comment that could apply to Livermore:
"According to Joseph Campbell, the late authority on mythology, the more challenging a situation is, the greater the stature of the person who can assimilate it. 'The demon that you can swallow gives you its power, and the greater life's pain, the greater life's reply.' This applies to trading--the more discomfort you experience, the more effective you will be as a trader."
Livermore's experiences offer a lot of lessons both good and bad. When he was 'in the zone' he was unbeatable....
In spite of the fact that his son (Jesse Jr.) was a complete f*#k up, I think he had a pretty good insight into why his father's trading success declined in later years.
He said that he thought his father was at his best when he was following a specific set of trading rules that he had worked out. (Jesse was essentially a systems trader, and one of the originators of that style. At one point, he employed a room full of statisticians to work out the odds on every trade he was considering). In his later years, he more-and-more abandoned his systems.
That might be explained in large measure by the fact that he was increasingly afflicted with major depression, which was obviously a factor in his suicide as well.
Since I am also a systems trader, my interest in JL's life is that it demonstrates the power of a sound trading methodology, and the dangers of trying to trade without one.
If Jesse Livermore couldn't "wing it", I'm certainly not going to try to.
saxon
He said that he thought his father was at his best when he was following a specific set of trading rules that he had worked out. (Jesse was essentially a systems trader, and one of the originators of that style. At one point, he employed a room full of statisticians to work out the odds on every trade he was considering). In his later years, he more-and-more abandoned his systems.
That might be explained in large measure by the fact that he was increasingly afflicted with major depression, which was obviously a factor in his suicide as well.
Since I am also a systems trader, my interest in JL's life is that it demonstrates the power of a sound trading methodology, and the dangers of trying to trade without one.
If Jesse Livermore couldn't "wing it", I'm certainly not going to try to.
saxon
Hi All,
Maybe I overlooked it in the present thread. A very interesting set of pictures were put on ET in a thread on Jessie some months ago. Perhaps somebody could post a pointer.
nononsense
Maybe I overlooked it in the present thread. A very interesting set of pictures were put on ET in a thread on Jessie some months ago. Perhaps somebody could post a pointer.
nononsense