Jay Cutler "Quit" on his team?

[denner]

Quote from Ticktaker:

This is the worst argument I have ever read. You do realize that Matt Forte had a very good year and the offensive line did an above average job at run blocking, correct? Do you also realize that a decent run blocking line, can in fact, be the most awful pass blocking line in the NFL? I think you are not aware of the differences. Let me elaborate so we don't have to cover this again.

Generally good run blockers thrive on their strength. Pass protection, however, is about forming a pocket for the quarterback and being quick on your feet to beat a defensive lineman to a spot.

You do realize how a line can be effective at one aspect of the game and not the other? This is why Cutler's seven step drops were quickly relegated to five, combined with rollouts, due to the ineffectiveness of the offensive lines ability to pass protect.

Rehoboth, let me ask you this. My thread is titled: Jay Cutler "Quit" on his team? You realize this thread is about that topic, si? Go back and look at my posts. Point out one mention of me stating that Cutler had a bigger impact than Peppers or Hester. Really, if you want to respond, quote me on it. And yeah, you are kind of a dolt. Back to the TOPIC, this was a clear point I made regarding the TOPIC.....vvvvvv.....Cutler's toughness and lack of quit. You should take a class or three on formulating an argument before you get back to me. And Rehoboth, take your garbage to saint elsewhere.

"Cutler was sacked 57 times this year and hit hard numerous other times yet never once did he pull himself out of the game, not even when his team was down 30+ points to the Patriots in a snowstorm. You can question his decision making, his attitude, his body language, or his tendency to stray from the fundamentals, but to sit there and question his toughness is just stupid."

That is all.

Forte had a good year AFTER Martz was forced to revise his "West Coast" Offense that had Cutler passing about 80% of the time. When a defense knows that you are going to pass on 4 out of 5 plays, ESPECIALLY when you are in 3rd and longs all the time, it's helluva lot easier to start blitzing and shooting the gaps to get to the QB.

Once the Bears started playing with a more mixed playbook with alot more running plays, the defense's couldn't key in on Cutler and do all out blitzes (i.e. see the Giants, although they were getting it done in the 4 front).

Regardless, there is quite a bit of truth in this thread to counter many of your claims. The Bears have one of the best special teams that the league has ever seen. Their field position, on balance, was probably better than any other team in the league. As a result, even on non scoring drives, they can pin the other teams deep in their own territory, which ALSO played to the strength of their defense (since mediocre teams will not risk alot of trickier pass plays deep in their own territory).

The fact of the matter is this is the first year that Cutler and the offense was somewhat proficient at scoring in the red zone. Last year, Cutler was near the bottom of the league in red zone efficiency and the number of picks he thru in the red zone was abysmal. He improved quite a bit in that regard. Nonetheless, the offense was nothing spectacular, instead it was a great special teams paired with a "bend don't break" defense that more often than not excelled at keeping teams out of the end zone, even if they gave up some bigger plays than a typical rock solid defense.

 

[denner]

Quote from RCG Trader:

One more thing, I am a Bears fan. Mike Martz and Jay Culter are trying to change the culture of a storied franchise. The Bears have always been a run first team. Always. Cutler left a pass first team in Denver. It will take the Bears some time to get an O-line who will be able to do both with success. Till then, cut Cutler some slack, he is the real deal.

He has all the talent, but I'll side with the detractors...I think he is a head case and will never live up to all the potential that has been thrown at him.

Green Bay will have the better team for the foreseeable future with a better QB (better leadership qualities and attitude), a better receiver corp and a younger defense that will continue to improve.

I might get laughed at for saying this, but don't count out Detroit either. They've stacked up that defense with some serious talent and almost took out some good teams this year. Can't count on Stafford to stay healthy, but if he can somehow miraculously cure all those injury woes, I think they start contending as well.

 

[RCG Trader]

Quote from denner:

He has all the talent, but I'll side with the detractors...I think he is a head case and will never live up to all the potential that has been thrown at him.

Green Bay will have the better team for the foreseeable future with a better QB (better leadership qualities and attitude), a better receiver corp and a younger defense that will continue to improve.

I might get laughed at for saying this, but don't count out Detroit either. They've stacked up that defense with some serious talent and almost took out some good teams this year. Can't count on Stafford to stay healthy, but if he can somehow miraculously cure all those injury woes, I think they start contending as well.

Detroit has had a few teams who should have won the division. They have Raider and Cowboy disease.

And I would not count out the Bears. Martz has a potent offense, it takes about three years to learn they say, this is year one. Cutler will continue to improve.

Green Bay was most impressive when they went down to Atl and beat them the way they did. To be honest, it frightened a lot of Bear fans here. Some believe they will win the SB. Aaron Rodgers with a running game will be tough for the rest of the conference for sure, if not the league.

 

[Ticktaker]

Quote from denner:

Forte had a good year AFTER Martz was forced to revise his "West Coast" Offense that had Cutler passing about 80% of the time. When a defense knows that you are going to pass on 4 out of 5 plays, ESPECIALLY when you are in 3rd and longs all the time, it's helluva lot easier to start blitzing and shooting the gaps to get to the QB.

Once the Bears started playing with a more mixed playbook with alot more running plays, the defense's couldn't key in on Cutler and do all out blitzes (i.e. see the Giants, although they were getting it done in the 4 front).

Regardless, there is quite a bit of truth in this thread to counter many of your claims. The Bears have one of the best special teams that the league has ever seen. Their field position, on balance, was probably better than any other team in the league. As a result, even on non scoring drives, they can pin the other teams deep in their own territory, which ALSO played to the strength of their defense (since mediocre teams will not risk alot of trickier pass plays deep in their own territory).

The fact of the matter is this is the first year that Cutler and the offense was somewhat proficient at scoring in the red zone. Last year, Cutler was near the bottom of the league in red zone efficiency and the number of picks he thru in the red zone was abysmal. He improved quite a bit in that regard. Nonetheless, the offense was nothing spectacular, instead it was a great special teams paired with a "bend don't break" defense that more often than not excelled at keeping teams out of the end zone, even if they gave up some bigger plays than a typical rock solid defense.

Denner, finally an intelligent post. Thank you. Never did I once mention Jay as an elite QB, whether he has the talent or not to become one. I am simply stating that he is neither soft nor a quitter. End of story. This is a good analysis, and I agree with a lot of your points. However, I don't see any truth to counter many of my claims that you have stated. Which claims, precisely? There are a ton of meatball watchers who chimed in to express their opinions based off of the five seconds FOX showed Cutler sitting indifferent on the sideline, along the with the unjustice the Bears did by stating Cutler as questionable when he was clearly out.

The Bears D will generally be seen in a cover 2, which inevitably is a bend don't break defense...this is obvious.

The more important equation to Jay's future success is more than likely 1) talent - he doesn't have much around him...from the line to the receivers. 2) Continuity. Cutler has learned four different offenses in six years, including three in the past three years. Aaron Rodgers??? One in his career. Martz doesn't run what anyone would today consider a "West Coast" offense. That is where you are wrong. He runs an offshoot of the Air Coryell offense which features more timing based throws and deeper routes. An old school West Coast offense if you will, much different from Turner and Shannahan, who ran a modern day West Coast to tailor Jay's strenghts.

We shall see in the next 2-3 years what unravels. I appreciate your post.

 

[RCG Trader]

Quote from Ticktaker:

Denner, finally an intelligent post. Thank you. Never did I once mention Jay as an elite QB, whether he has the talent or not to become one. I am simply stating that he is neither soft nor a quitter. End of story. This is a good analysis, and I agree with a lot of your points. However, I don't see any truth to counter many of my claims that you have stated. Which claims, precisely? There are a ton of meatball watchers who chimed in to express their opinions based off of the five seconds FOX showed Cutler sitting indifferent on the sideline, along the with the unjustice the Bears did by stating Cutler as questionable when he was clearly out.

The Bears D will generally be seen in a cover 2, which inevitably is a bend don't break defense...this is obvious.

The more important equation to Jay's future success is more than likely 1) talent - he doesn't have much around him...from the line to the receivers. 2) Continuity. Cutler has learned four different offenses in six years, including three in the past three years. Aaron Rodgers??? One in his career. Martz doesn't run what anyone would today consider a "West Coast" offense. That is where you are wrong. He runs an offshoot of the Air Coryell offense which features more timing based throws and deeper routes. An old school West Coast offense if you will, much different from Turner and Shannahan, who ran a modern day West Coast to tailor Jay's strenghts.

We shall see in the next 2-3 years what unravels. I appreciate your post.

This is what I see too. If they keep Lovie Smith and commit to Martz, then they will get the recievers and line to allow the offense to bloom. Cutler has the arm, he has the toughness, but he will have to work on being the fiery leader that almost all elite QBs are. Only the Ray Lewis led Ravens and the Warren Sapp led Bucs have won championships when the undisputed leader was on the defensive side of the ball. To get to the next level Cutler will have to take command of HIS team.