jasinhbca's quest for discipline, knowledge & profits

Working on clarity - sweet



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A couple of thoughts Sir on stops/ targets
(iow my random thoughts that "maybe" can be of use)

Stops; (which imo stops is a whole area of study/ expertise in itself)

Always low risk

Always placed where the trade fails

Getting both of these takes patience enough to allow the proper conditions to materialize…, AND a willingness to miss some trades because the proper conditions never materialized

Be clear why you entered – so it’s also clear where your stop is placed/ why you would exit

Could be;

Just the other side of a S or R..., – or – greater than 50% retracement of the previous move (momentum is possibly waning)

Personally;

I’m also a proponent of timed stops;

Meaning; once I enter a trade…, if it doesn't move in my direction PDQ – I exit and go back to observing/ reevaluating (I hate being in a trade while price tries figuring out which way it wants to move)

and/ or

Trading off the 1 minute; I’ll use the 5 & 30 minute as bigger views – paying attention every 5 min & 30 min as/ when these bars are opening / closing (sometimes you even get a read on when a range is beginning to form – because price isn't breaking the previous bar’s range)

Targets;

NOD trades CL with measured moves / certain # of ticks – as a target (I think)

or

As long as price is doing what we think / thought it should – hang in there

When price shows its changing / possibly changing - exit

or

A reasonable target based on your own observation(s)

or

A reasonable target based on a higher TF


Stuff to ponder Sir..., always stuff to ponder :)

RN
 
Another thought

Notice on that last chart you posted - price trends (moves)... then forms a hinge (back and forth) then trends (moves) some more - then forms a hinge (back and forth)

Think about that..., and also think about what that looks like on a higher TF (as the higher TF bar - opens - is being formed - closes)

RN
 
RN,

Saw your post the other day and my apologies for not responding sooner.

Most of what you wrote are things I've considered so it's great to hear the confirmation.

On exits I know i'm often focused on trading 'correctly' (let winners run) and end up with less than I should. So, i'm reminded of an old post of mine that "it's a numbers game". I just need to collect some decent winners and forget about the perfect exit; which is never known until after the fact anyway.

Thank you, Sir.
 
-28 ticks for the week.

It's a mental thing. I'm doing classic mistakes of exiting once I see a quick profit. Instead I should be watching the pullback to see if the S/R will hold. For example the other day I took +7 ticks when I knew full well I should hold. Price then went another 25 +. Quick CL moves require quick and calm thinking which my little traders mind is simply not doing.

This then leads to frustration and hesitation on subsequent trades. And i'm not talking about after the fact analysis thinking I should have taken such and such trades. This is me talking out loud to myself calling the set ups in real time and then not taking it.

It's funny. I really always thought that if someone gave me the set ups (because that's the secret holy grail) I would absolutely have the discipline to take 'em. Not happening. Yet.

So i'm in the psych. side of trading now. This I now realize is what separates the amateurs from the pros.

I'm reading "Trading in the Zone" and "Golf is not a game of perfect". I rarely play golf anymore but heard the latter book can apply to trading as well as golf.

That's about it for now..
 
Quote from jas_in_hbca:

-28 ticks for the week.

It's a mental thing. I'm doing classic mistakes of exiting once I see a quick profit. Instead I should be watching the pullback to see if the S/R will hold. For example the other day I took +7 ticks when I knew full well I should hold. Price then went another 25 +. Quick CL moves require quick and calm thinking which my little traders mind is simply not doing.

This then leads to frustration and hesitation on subsequent trades. And i'm not talking about after the fact analysis thinking I should have taken such and such trades. This is me talking out loud to myself calling the set ups in real time and then not taking it.

It's funny. I really always thought that if someone gave me the set ups (because that's the secret holy grail) I would absolutely have the discipline to take 'em. Not happening. Yet.

So i'm in the psych. side of trading now. This I now realize is what separates the amateurs from the pros.

I'm reading "Trading in the Zone" and "Golf is not a game of perfect". I rarely play golf anymore but heard the latter book can apply to trading as well as golf.

That's about it for now..
More...

Your psychological "issues" can be cleared up by dropping your position size way way way down...down to a level where it doesn't affect your emotions one way or the other if the trade is a winner or loser. This exercise will enable you to rebuild your confidence in your method.

The psychological problems that you're encountering is likely due to the fact that your account is not large enough to prevent a losing trade from affecting you emotionally. I say listen to your instincts. It's nature's way of preventing you from destroying your account.

Since it seems that you trade crude oil, unfortunately you will need to stop trading that market...maybe the YM?...or even better if your account is large enough you should trade stocks because you can set your risk per trade as low as possible...if at least temporarily to rebuild your confidence and "start making money again".
 
Quote from jas_in_hbca:

It's a mental thing. I'm doing classic mistakes of exiting once I see a quick profit. Instead I should be watching the pullback to see if the S/R will hold. For example the other day I took +7 ticks when I knew full well I should hold. Price then went another 25 +. Quick CL moves require quick and calm thinking which my little traders mind is simply not doing.

This then leads to frustration and hesitation on subsequent trades. And i'm not talking about after the fact analysis thinking I should have taken such and such trades. This is me talking out loud to myself calling the set ups in real time and then not taking it.

It's funny. I really always thought that if someone gave me the set ups (because that's the secret holy grail) I would absolutely have the discipline to take 'em. Not happening. Yet.

So i'm in the psych. side of trading now. This I now realize is what separates the amateurs from the pros.

I'm reading "Trading in the Zone" and "Golf is not a game of perfect". I rarely play golf anymore but heard the latter book can apply to trading as well as golf.

That's about it for now..
More...

Was uuuuppppp JIH

Now you've made it past this little hurtle…

(and figured out why I spend little, to no time showing/ talking about my setups)

On to the next one

===============

Key to unlocking this next hurtle;

(which btw, quicker you start accepting the hurtles never cease – (each progression has its own challenge(s)) – the quicker you’ll learn to overcome them / and the easier it becomes to do same)


Accept; overcoming this hurtle – will be no harder than what you make it – on YOURSELF….

That in the end, none of it matters

And that; If you fight it / the degree to which you fight it … you’re only fighting yourself… and it’s you fighting changing you

(we are comfortable with familiarity…, resistant to unfamiliarity – and changing is always unfamiliar)

================================

Likely there will be times when you are unsure/ scared to your very core….

Unsure what the next step is… unsure if you’re headed in the right direction…, and/ or just plain scared

At these times it is imperative to simply keep moving forward

Dwelling on it – only leads to being consumed by it

Again…, in the bigger picture and ultimately – NONE OF IT MATTERS but you gotta get “there” to realize this

And that is exactly where “there” is – where none of it matters – to you (not a superficial there…, but a deep down, to your core – there)

Only then has the mkt lost its ability to affect you

Only then are you truly free to do your job

Only then can you focus on price..., and not on your self/ your thoughts

Only then – you’re mind is quiet… you’re at peace with yourself… you’re simply trading – win, lose, or draw

===============================

Important Note;

Just because we get to a point where none of it matters.., does not mean we automatically become heartless pricks

It simply provides a comprehensive cadre from which to pull the correct state of mind for the given situation

Each day / each situation – WE DECIDE how we respond

=================================

fwiw.., my copy of “In The Zone”

Every sentence is highlighted

Every sentence rewritten in my own words – so I understood it - so I knew it - so I internalize it

Simply what I had to do… (I fought myself tooth and nail being the stubborn / hard headed ass I am)

Not saying you will…, though you might (only you can determine that)

======================

Time to find out what you’re made of JIH,

want to talk, I’ll be here - but ultimately this journey is yours to complete

Success Sir :)

RN
 
Thanks Hurricane.

Strangely I don't think it's a money issue. It's more about me having an expectation of how I should be trading and then not achieving that ideal which then causes me frustration and then further mistakes.


I think even in sim I would have these same issues. Currently i'm still up for the year so I will continue to try to work out my psych issues in live trading for now. But ready to go back to sim if things don't improve soon.


Quote from HurricaneUS:

Your psychological "issues" can be cleared up by dropping your position size way way way down...down to a level where it doesn't affect your emotions one way or the other if the trade is a winner or loser. This exercise will enable you to rebuild your confidence in your method.

The psychological problems that you're encountering is likely due to the fact that your account is not large enough to prevent a losing trade from affecting you emotionally. I say listen to your instincts. It's nature's way of preventing you from destroying your account.

Since it seems that you trade crude oil, unfortunately you will need to stop trading that market...maybe the YM?...or even better if your account is large enough you should trade stocks because you can set your risk per trade as low as possible...if at least temporarily to rebuild your confidence and "start making money again".
More...
 
Great stuff, RN.

Everything you wrote is extremely helpful. This was especially interesting..

"Important Note;

Just because we get to a point where none of it matters.., does not mean we automatically become heartless pricks"



I have thought at times I may need to become robotic, emotionless and generally unfeeling and how is that going to impact me as a person. It was a bit disturbing to wonder how much of myself I would have to give up in order to make it. So, your words are not only timely but well, comforting.

Thanks for the support !
 
Quote from jas_in_hbca:

Great stuff, RN.
"...Just because we get to a point where none of it matters.., does not mean we automatically become heartless pricks"

I have thought at times I may need to become robotic, emotionless and generally unfeeling and how is that going to impact me as a person. It was a bit disturbing to wonder how much of myself I would have to give up in order to make it. So, your words are not only timely but well, comforting.

Thanks for the support !
More...

I am a thoughtless heartless prick, when I step into my office, I want YOU and everyone else to transfer every nickel of your account to mine. That is the nature of the game and most likely every other game played on PCs. Am constantly watching charts to see where the next area where the inexperienced will get screwed and I will be there to sweep up their losses. Learning to accept that you can't control anything except yourself, learning patience to sit on your hands 99% of the time, THEN pounce like a madmen when you have a good signal to sweep up the floor, I am just a janitor. Let others take the dumb trades.

When I leave the office, the other me comes back, very humbled to live my life as I please.
 
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