jasinhbca's quest for discipline, knowledge & profits

Areas i continue to focus on:

Overcoming hesitation on entries. Accept uncertainty.
Take reasonable profits. Not every one will be a homerun.
Take heat when price action indicates to stay in trade.

I used to print charts of set ups and put in a binder. I've started doing that again. Making notes on charts and filing based on set up category. (Actually i'll be organizing the collected charts over the T-day break.)

Still just trying to grind it out and stay focused everyday. Was able to overcome some missed oppurtunities and frustration to end BE. Afternoon was more hesitation and missed trades.

It's very simple really. See the set up , accept the ambiguity, enter, manage the trade. Repeat.
 

Attachments

My trade review process used to consist of printing out the chart for each trade, completing a trade review worksheet (set up type, exit type, gain/loss, mistakes, notes) then putting the info into excel.

After a while i stopped entering into excel. Then it got to the point that it was too many trades a day to complete a worksheet for. Plus i was collecting alot of paper work.

I haven't felt i was training myself properly by skipping the actual recording of info so now i've designed a new worksheet.

The important info in my development has been keeping track of my trading mistakes. So my new w/s is 1 page which i should be able to list all trades for the week on and the main item i'm recording is mistakes. I'll print charts only when it provides a good example for future reference.

I also want to keep track of the # of trades i'm missing.

Rather than describe it further i'll just post a pic.

Comments or suggestions welcomed and appreciated. Thanks !


Today 8 trades -.75 Still making mistakes. Correcting them is my primary focus now. this is an improvement for me as before i was always focused on understanding entries. I'm not improving as quickly as i had hoped but will be happy with at least the little progress i am making.

Happy Turkey day traders ! I hope everybody enjoys their day off.
 

Attachments

Quote from jas_in_hbca:

My trade review process used to consist of printing out the chart for each trade, completing a trade review worksheet (set up type, exit type, gain/loss, mistakes, notes) then putting the info into excel.

After a while i stopped entering into excel. Then it got to the point that it was too many trades a day to complete a worksheet for. Plus i was collecting alot of paper work.

I haven't felt i was training myself properly by skipping the actual recording of info so now i've designed a new worksheet.

The important info in my development has been keeping track of my trading mistakes. So my new w/s is 1 page which i should be able to list all trades for the week on and the main item i'm recording is mistakes. I'll print charts only when it provides a good example for future reference.

I also want to keep track of the # of trades i'm missing.

Rather than describe it further i'll just post a pic.

Comments or suggestions welcomed and appreciated. Thanks !


Today 8 trades -.75 Still making mistakes. Correcting them is my primary focus now. this is an improvement for me as before i was always focused on understanding entries. I'm not improving as quickly as i had hoped but will be happy with at least the little progress i am making.

Happy Turkey day traders ! I hope everybody enjoys their day off.
More...

Your psychological issues with trading might be because you don't have confidence in your plan and your ablility to read the market. It's a viscious cycle that feeds on itself if you don't get to the root of the problem. I've seen some of your past trades plotted on your charts but you don't give much reasoning for why you took them. Post wednesday's trades plotted on a chart and give detailed reasons why you took them. I'd like to throw some non-professional comments to them if I may. Then you can evaluate my comments and see if they help you down the line.
 
jasinhbca, I saw your P&L plots, I admire your analytical approach. The thoughts you share and the efforts you put in at reassessing the trading day and even the printouts you make, shows me that you truly want to learn it in a proper way. Let me attempt to redirect you to the right path because I believe that you are expending your focus on the wrong thing.

We are here to trade trends on a consistent basis by simply following them. At least I can see from your annotations that you are trying it but trade in a very intimidated way. The numerous trades you take and the little proceeds you get from them do hint that you have second thoughts and prefer to close a position before it may turn against you big time. Why is that so? While the market wiggles and you take a mini loss after another, an experienced trend trader has been staying in his position during the whole time. No action was taken at all, but yet the trend trader ends up with a more advantageous position than the one who is being assertive. That trader is convinced of his methods, his bias, his position, his stop, himself. Be more convinced of yourself. We need to acknowledge that markets do not move like elevators, but like waves within a current. Uptrends will always be interrupted by frequent sell-offs whereas downtrends will witness just as many rallies. What the trader has to focus on, is the overall current in the shape of trends because this tells you the path of least resistance.

To avoid fearful closing of positions, you need to know why you are opening the trade in the first place. What is your rationale for going long or short? I cannot help you with it because the entry is at everyone's discretion. What I can recommend is that you put a properly chosen stop level based on price action and let the market prove you wrong. Unless that happens, you must stick to your trade through wiggle and waggle. Hint: the stopout should happen where the original reason for your entry is no longer given due to objective observation of price action (not your gut feel). Make printouts of larger time frames than what you are currently looking at. You focus too much on the random moves intraday, than the actual trend in the broader perspective. Trade those, and you will witness far greater success. It is evident that a trader gets confused every single trading day anew. Randomness has no logic, so do not seek logic in randomness. Start looking at the forest for the trees. My favorite time frame is the 1H. I don't look at anything shorter term. Feel comfortable with holding your position over night, even several nights. It is a common misconception communicated among newbies that you must close your trade within the same day. Trends last more than a single day. They last multiple days to weeks, sometimes months. Why? Because public sentiment does not shift from one moment to the next but takes a long time.
 
Quote from Bombardier:

jasinhbca, I saw your P&L plots, I admire your analytical approach. The thoughts you share and the efforts you put in at reassessing the trading day and even the printouts you make, shows me that you truly want to learn it in a proper way. Let me attempt to redirect you to the right path because I believe that you are expending your focus on the wrong thing.

We are here to trade trends on a consistent basis by simply following them. At least I can see from your annotations that you are trying it but trade in a very intimidated way. The numerous trades you take and the little proceeds you get from them do hint that you have second thoughts and prefer to close a position before it may turn against you big time. Why is that so? While the market wiggles and you take a mini loss after another, an experienced trend trader has been staying in his position during the whole time. No action was taken at all, but yet the trend trader ends up with a more advantageous position than the one who is being assertive. That trader is convinced of his methods, his bias, his position, his stop, himself. Be more convinced of yourself. We need to acknowledge that markets do not move like elevators, but like waves within a current. Uptrends will always be interrupted by frequent sell-offs whereas downtrends will witness just as many rallies. What the trader has to focus on, is the overall current in the shape of trends because this tells you the path of least resistance.

To avoid fearful closing of positions, you need to know why you are opening the trade in the first place. What is your rationale for going long or short? I cannot help you with it because the entry is at everyone's discretion. What I can recommend is that you put a properly chosen stop level based on price action and let the market prove you wrong. Unless that happens, you must stick to your trade through wiggle and waggle. Hint: the stopout should happen where the original reason for your entry is no longer given due to objective observation of price action (not your gut feel). Make printouts of larger time frames than what you are currently looking at. You focus too much on the random moves intraday, than the actual trend in the broader perspective. Trade those, and you will witness far greater success. It is evident that a trader gets confused every single trading day anew. Randomness has no logic, so do not seek logic in randomness. Start looking at the forest for the trees. My favorite time frame is the 1H. I don't look at anything shorter term. Feel comfortable with holding your position over night, even several nights. It is a common misconception communicated among newbies that you must close your trade within the same day. Trends last more than a single day. They last multiple days to weeks, sometimes months. Why? Because public sentiment does not shift from one moment to the next but takes a long time.
More...

very well written post, especially the last few lines.

Reduce your size and increase your timeframe....you will become profitable. I haven't read your journal, but let give an example. If you are trading ES, trade 1 contract for every 20k in account equity. Hold the positions for multiple hours, if required multiple days, put profit target at least 10 points and stops also around that level AND trade less. Take 2 trades in a week - to start off.....do this for next 10 weeks. After you are profitable for at least 5 weeks, then you can increase trading frequency. Good Luck.

P.S. There are three reasons why reducing your trade frequency and increasing stops/profits will improve your PL:

1. Your commissions will reduce. If currently, you are trading really frequently, it will have a huge huge impact on your Pl

2. By trading less, you will only take best quality trades, and ignore other lower probability trades. Will work wonders for your PL and your confidence in yourself.

3. By trading longer time frame trades, you will not trade randomness, rather trends that sustain themselves over multiple hours.
 
Quote from Instynct:

Your psychological issues with trading might be because you don't have confidence in your plan and your ablility to read the market. It's a viscious cycle that feeds on itself if you don't get to the root of the problem. I've seen some of your past trades plotted on your charts but you don't give much reasoning for why you took them. Post wednesday's trades plotted on a chart and give detailed reasons why you took them. I'd like to throw some non-professional comments to them if I may. Then you can evaluate my comments and see if they help you down the line.
More...


Thanks Insynct. I'd love to get your feedback. I don't have wed trades here at home but next week i can post a chart w/ trades and explanations. I believe you're right though it's partly confidence.

I've also been reversing too quickly after a losing trade which more often than not has also been a loss. I'm going to cut back on those trades.
 
Bombardier,

Thank you for your time and suggestions. In regards to stops/exits, in the past i usually found that most of my winning trades go in my favor immediately with little heat. So now when a trade stalls soon after entry i get nervous. I also use close stops because most of my winning trades have MAE of less than 2 pts (my initial stop is 2.25, sometimes 3.00). This is something i need to continue to monitor and adjust. Jokepie has also suggested as you have that i stick with the trade as long as the reason , price action and proper stop placement, is valid. I believe this is my problem- overcoming my bias or need for immediate confirmation vs the reality of the way markets move.

The largest intra-day time frame i look at is a half hr chart. I'm not sure i'm ready to try trading on a larger time frame than the 5 and 1 minute charts quite yet. Interesting to think about though.

Thank you again for your thoughtful post. I have printed it out and will re-read i'm sure several more times.




Quote from Bombardier:

jasinhbca, I saw your P&L plots, I admire your analytical approach. The thoughts you share and the efforts you put in at reassessing the trading day and even the printouts you make, shows me that you truly want to learn it in a proper way. Let me attempt to redirect you to the right path because I believe that you are expending your focus on the wrong thing.

We are here to trade trends on a consistent basis by simply following them. At least I can see from your annotations that you are trying it but trade in a very intimidated way. The numerous trades you take and the little proceeds you get from them do hint that you have second thoughts and prefer to close a position before it may turn against you big time. Why is that so? While the market wiggles and you take a mini loss after another, an experienced trend trader has been staying in his position during the whole time. No action was taken at all, but yet the trend trader ends up with a more advantageous position than the one who is being assertive. That trader is convinced of his methods, his bias, his position, his stop, himself. Be more convinced of yourself. We need to acknowledge that markets do not move like elevators, but like waves within a current. Uptrends will always be interrupted by frequent sell-offs whereas downtrends will witness just as many rallies. What the trader has to focus on, is the overall current in the shape of trends because this tells you the path of least resistance.

To avoid fearful closing of positions, you need to know why you are opening the trade in the first place. What is your rationale for going long or short? I cannot help you with it because the entry is at everyone's discretion. What I can recommend is that you put a properly chosen stop level based on price action and let the market prove you wrong. Unless that happens, you must stick to your trade through wiggle and waggle. Hint: the stopout should happen where the original reason for your entry is no longer given due to objective observation of price action (not your gut feel). Make printouts of larger time frames than what you are currently looking at. You focus too much on the random moves intraday, than the actual trend in the broader perspective. Trade those, and you will witness far greater success. It is evident that a trader gets confused every single trading day anew. Randomness has no logic, so do not seek logic in randomness. Start looking at the forest for the trees. My favorite time frame is the 1H. I don't look at anything shorter term. Feel comfortable with holding your position over night, even several nights. It is a common misconception communicated among newbies that you must close your trade within the same day. Trends last more than a single day. They last multiple days to weeks, sometimes months. Why? Because public sentiment does not shift from one moment to the next but takes a long time.
More...
 
Gmst,

Thank you also for your time and suggestions.

Quote from gmst:

very well written post, especially the last few lines.

Reduce your size and increase your timeframe....you will become profitable. I haven't read your journal, but let give an example. If you are trading ES, trade 1 contract for every 20k in account equity. Hold the positions for multiple hours, if required multiple days, put profit target at least 10 points and stops also around that level AND trade less. Take 2 trades in a week - to start off.....do this for next 10 weeks. After you are profitable for at least 5 weeks, then you can increase trading frequency. Good Luck.

P.S. There are three reasons why reducing your trade frequency and increasing stops/profits will improve your PL:

1. Your commissions will reduce. If currently, you are trading really frequently, it will have a huge huge impact on your Pl

2. By trading less, you will only take best quality trades, and ignore other lower probability trades. Will work wonders for your PL and your confidence in yourself.

3. By trading longer time frame trades, you will not trade randomness, rather trends that sustain themselves over multiple hours.
More...
 
Quote from Bombardier:

jasinhbca, I saw your P&L plots, I admire your analytical approach. The thoughts you share and the efforts you put in at reassessing the trading day and even the printouts you make, shows me that you truly want to learn it in a proper way. Let me attempt to redirect you to the right path because I believe that you are expending your focus on the wrong thing.

We are here to trade trends on a consistent basis by simply following them. At least I can see from your annotations that you are trying it but trade in a very intimidated way. The numerous trades you take and the little proceeds you get from them do hint that you have second thoughts and prefer to close a position before it may turn against you big time. Why is that so? While the market wiggles and you take a mini loss after another, an experienced trend trader has been staying in his position during the whole time. No action was taken at all, but yet the trend trader ends up with a more advantageous position than the one who is being assertive. That trader is convinced of his methods, his bias, his position, his stop, himself. Be more convinced of yourself. We need to acknowledge that markets do not move like elevators, but like waves within a current. Uptrends will always be interrupted by frequent sell-offs whereas downtrends will witness just as many rallies. What the trader has to focus on, is the overall current in the shape of trends because this tells you the path of least resistance.

To avoid fearful closing of positions, you need to know why you are opening the trade in the first place. What is your rationale for going long or short? I cannot help you with it because the entry is at everyone's discretion. What I can recommend is that you put a properly chosen stop level based on price action and let the market prove you wrong. Unless that happens, you must stick to your trade through wiggle and waggle. Hint: the stopout should happen where the original reason for your entry is no longer given due to objective observation of price action (not your gut feel). Make printouts of larger time frames than what you are currently looking at. You focus too much on the random moves intraday, than the actual trend in the broader perspective. Trade those, and you will witness far greater success. It is evident that a trader gets confused every single trading day anew. Randomness has no logic, so do not seek logic in randomness. Start looking at the forest for the trees. My favorite time frame is the 1H. I don't look at anything shorter term. Feel comfortable with holding your position over night, even several nights. It is a common misconception communicated among newbies that you must close your trade within the same day. Trends last more than a single day. They last multiple days to weeks, sometimes months. Why? Because public sentiment does not shift from one moment to the next but takes a long time.
More...


This is one of the most astute missives I have read on ET in past 11 years.

Interestingly (so far) the OP did not even comment or thank Bombardier. Maybe he does not get it.

I think after ONE year of trading futures without any success the OP needs to re-think his plan and goals. This constant illusion that he is making progress is just that... an illusion. This is nothing more than I would say and have said to myself. I used to kid myself back in the 90s when losing or making little, that I was making progress - fighting the good fight. But in reality I was just gambling. The OP is doing the same.

I am only stating what I would tell myself, and have.

Further what Bombardier states, in the broader context, is the only way to trade reasonably successfully for most. This getting in and out every fricking minute or day never seemed to me (in futures) to be a paradigm for success except for the very very few (being it is so whimsical and random.)

Now over a longer time period within that day or week, as Bombardier infers, you can justify trading futures from a R/R point of view. Otherwise you are better playing Blackjack or craps.

Also what Instynct says is particularly true; it is a problem I have. I always wonder what I would say if some good traders from ET asked me in person about certain positions. Could I give a reasonable explanation as to why I entered and articulate a winning plan/scenario?! Many times I realize I could not!
 
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