jasinhbca's quest for discipline, knowledge & profits

[Redneck]

Hi @Redneck

Would you mind elaborating on this statement?

If you are in the military I believe you would.

There several endeavors one would think - one would (and rightfully so)

The difference - traders must utilize all of it - with every trade - no exceptions



Other endeavors; get time off/ sick time..., with pay - we don't..., are allowed indiscretions (fuck ups if you like).., without adverse consequences / suffering - we are not... are allowed to be less that 100% while working - we are not

No doubt some endeavors..., taken lightly - will kill / dismember / cripple one - at certain times

Yet other times can effectively be done with less intent / focus / routine

We can ill afford to ever under take our endeavor lightly


These other endeavors have competent trainers..., to adequately prepare one for their endeavor

(running up hill..., while another atop it is trying to kill you..., is not a natural act - yet men do..., running into a burning building while others trying to escape - is not a natural act - yet men and women do..., remaining calm - while others spit on you / call you derogatory names - is not a natural act - yet men and women do )

We do not

==============

We are not bigger..., badder..., nor even better - simply different

It the nature of the beast we've chosen to pursue

I have an off day - no one there to step in / cover my ass / assist - nor save me

RN

 

[dartmus]

I have an off day - no one there to step in / cover my ass / assist - nor save me

I understand. However ...in your unique case ...many of those you've helped will b there the moment we here there's a problem.

 

[Redneck]

I understand. However ...in your unique case ...many of those you've helped will b there the moment we here there's a problem.

Man D...

What a wonderful... and deeply humbling post

My heat grinning from ear to ear

Thank You Sir

RN

 

[Hooti]

Reminds me of those summer jobs or internships when in high school and college.

When you are the new kid and someone is showing you the ropes. Sometimes what they were doing was way above my head, other times you were thinking "they get paid to do this?!"

And then you become a trader, and for me... failing for some time. And I'm sitting there day after day wondering what it is I'm supposed to do. What am I supposed to be? All the jobs I had before one could kind of understand, but this one...

A person can live their entire life (literally birth to death) - and never need to call upon the discipline..., patience..., sameness (routine) it takes to trade successfully


Not once..., not repeatedly..., not ever

...and you sit there; it seems so simple in a way and obvious what to do; knowing the rewards if you do it. Yet you are somehow not doing it, not being successful. That can mess with you. You discover you are not the I-can-do-it-person you think you are.

Why do so many fail or quit before they succeed?

It may be that we never recognize the discipline…, patience…, sameness… because not once…, not ever…. have we needed to go there before in our lives.

And maybe the people who succeed early on – for whatever reason – just have done that level of discipline/patience/sameness as just part of who they naturally tend to be?

And those of us who continue on and succeed find some way to reach that depth of discipline, patience, sameness.

………………….

For me the sameness part is the hardest. When I was the new kid for trading and they were showing me the ropes… The discipline and patience I heard at least in part, but the ‘sameness’ didn’t soak in – that was not in my nature at all.

One of my favorite RN quotes is something to the effect that if you don't do it exactly right each time you are hurting yourself. Similar to that, I don't remember who, but someone said that one of the hardest things to do is a simple thing over and over and over.

And with trading you chose to do that sameness/routine over and over in an uncertain environment where you can never know the what the results will be of any one thing you do. It is a peculiar thing.

<Scratching head.> Wait a minute.

You never know the results… but keep doing the same thing?


Isn’t ‘crazy’ doing the same thing over and over expecting different results… like, finally the results you want.

Trading is doing the same thing over and over – and expecting different results than what you want – because you accept uncertainty.
……………..

So trading is just one step different than being crazy.

And that near experience is enough for some people to quit before they succeed.

[I’m joking, but it actually could be!]

 

[Redneck]

So trading is just one step different than being crazy.

At times.., not even one step

Great post Hooti!!!

RN

 

[jas_in_hbca]

I have yet to find trading simple. I still am looking for ways to filter trades to improve odds and also to find ways to avoid missing some of the trades I should have taken. Sometimes the trades are plain as day and easy to take. It occurred to me this morning that maybe I should just watch two markets and wait for the easy trades. It might lead to only a few trades a week but it could improve my overall results. Not sure that fits my personality right now.

My review this week is focusing more attention to price clues I've noticed before but haven't incorporated to my plan. It's a balancing act between overly trying to curve fit and just accepting the risk. I'm looking at one (and a variation of) pattern that may be helpful in filtering some lower odds trades. I call it a break out climax bar. Needs some more testing.

Focusing on reviewing a pre target exit which I have in my plan but seem to have not been using. Damn, Hope trading.

I expect it will get simpler as I work through some of these questions I'm having. Not frustrated though. Still learning and finding key points to focus on that will lead to consistency of analysis/execution.

 

[Redneck]

I still am looking for ways to filter trades

to improve odds

to find ways to avoid missing some of the trades I should have taken.

Do some introspective analysis - the above screams a few things jacked up

What are they

I have yet to find trading simple

This is because above still jacked up..., and possibly to a lessor extent - still assimilating

haven't incorporated to my plan.

It's a balancing act between overly trying to curve fit

and accepting the risk.

Hmmmmm - this whole quote contradicting..., and conflicting - with how trading actually is

Focusing on reviewing a pre target exit

Things that make me go - WTF!!!!

I expect it will get simpler as I work through some of these questions I'm having.

Especially with regard to trading:

The more we add..., the further we get away - the further we get away..., the more we add




=========================

I left above open ended because I know (and respect) you're trying to "step away"

Tell me where to intercede..., and where to shut the hell up


RN

 

[Hooti]

I have yet to find trading simple.

Every now and then I realize I’ve expanded into complexity. I observe that my statistics get all off then and become worthless, because the things I’m doing become so complex as to not be consistently repeatable. In fact, I was just looking at this issue for myself.

One of my inspirations at these times is that ET hall of fame thread by SusanaDT “The price action journal”. I don’t trade the way she does, but her approach is great in how she went about it and the simplicity of it.

After 4 years of losing, she tossed out what she didn’t resonate with or understand. Her choices remaining made things simple enough to be doable and repeatable:

She preps for the day by putting in 4 levels she calls ‘flip lines’.
She only considers horizontal S/R (doesn’t that leave out a can of worms).
I’m putting words a little in her mouth, but she identifies a trend as the movement from one flip line to another. She then only takes with trend trades. Period. [less decisions looking only in one direction]
She has just 2 kinds of entries. There is an entry ‘signal box’ that tells you where to enter and where to put your stop. [less decisions]
It either goes to the target or protective stop. She doesn’t move her stops.
She trades all in. [less decisions]
One instrument. [less decisions]
If she is late, or an order doesn’t fill, she doesn’t chase. [less decisions]
You can modify what she does to exit with scalps or swings. That’s the plan. Pretty much the whole plan.

Each choice created less decisions, and so what she was doing became actually testable... in turn the risk became real and something you could accept or not.


When I realize I’m making my trading overly complex I look at her and slap myself upside the head… The point being: Susana’s whole plan could fit on a 3 X 5 card (hand written and not that small of print)… can mine?

In a sense, the simplicity is the filter.


At least that is one way of looking at it. You’ve had success, consider that and do what works for you.
You do sound a bit tired or something. Take care of yourself. Find yourself, you've done it before. This is going to be a tough week for me, double duty with someone gone. Look forward to watching your progress.

LOL see RN's post. You certainly can tell us of what we say that interests you, and where not. Your honesty and ability to see yourself is a jewel.

 

[NoDoji]

I still am looking for ways to filter trades to improve odds and also to find ways to avoid missing some of the trades I should have taken. Sometimes the trades are plain as day and easy to take.

This quest is depriving you of success as a trader. Although I don't know your trading plan, I'm fairly certain that if you apply your rules during each trading session, the end result is a profitable session the vast majority of the time (possibly every day).

The quest for less risk and more certainty will very likely result in paralysis by analysis and the resulting frustration will lead to chasing and overtrading and losses that make you scratch your head at the end of the session and say "WTF was I doing?"

Hooti's recap of Susanna's simplicity illustrates how to think like a trader, how to keep things simple and worry only about probabilities, not about the result of each individual trade.

Not sure that fits my personality right now.

Trading will never fit the personality of someone who's seeking security and comfort.

Consider working on specific behaviors (actions) that lead you to developing a different personality: the ability to be comfortable with risk because you know that in the end the acceptance of risk (and loss) allows you to comfortably put on trades that feel risky but will become profitable, and to let those trades reach their profit target without second-guessing and cutting them short.

Anything less tends to result in holding and hoping that adverse excursions will come back to make you whole (causing you to exit potentially profitable trades near break even or for smaller losses and to take full losses on losing trades) and fear that favorable excursions will reverse and turn into losers (causing you to cut most potential profits short).

Anything less also tends to cause you to skip trades because in real time you believe you can somehow determine the outcome of a particular trade based on thoughts/feelings.

My review this week is focusing more attention to price clues I've noticed before but haven't incorporated to my plan. It's a balancing act between overly trying to curve fit and just accepting the risk.

Again, I'm fairly certain you have a net profitable trading plan. Work on transforming your behavior/mindset so that you can objectively follow your plan. Once you've mastered that, you can run statistical analyses of all sorts of other ideas and gradually add new ideas to your plan.

Until you transform your personality into a trader's personality (and this transformation comes about through action steps that lead you to correct behaviors), all the incredible "low-risk", "easy", "comfortable" setups in the world will still be impossible for you to take advantage of because the underlying mindset issues will not have been addressed.

You'll be left in a desolate place psychologically, where you stand before a gate with the Key to the Kingdom in your hand, and find yourself incapable of placing the key into the lock and turning it.

 

[zbestoch]

I have yet to find trading simple.

While I use indicators to program automated systems, and I am currently manually forward testing another system using indicators, my discretionary trading, the trading I do day after day, sitting here watching the market ... day after day, waiting for signs that I should, as @Redneck says, "mash on the mouse button," uses a simple line on close chart. That is as simple as I've been able to make it. And I found that once I simplified my approach to trading, it became easy to follow and execute.

I still am looking for ways to filter trades to improve odds and also to find ways to avoid missing some of the trades I should have taken.

This quest is depriving you of success as a trader.

The endless search for "filters" will always lead to failure. It is a path with only one destination, and as long as you stay on it, you will fail.

Sometimes the trades are plain as day and easy to take. It occurred to me this morning that maybe I should just watch two markets and wait for the easy trades.

Assuming you are using some form of price action to make your trades, you should only be taking the trades that are as plain as day. If there is not a good price action set up readily apparent on your chart, DOM, tick stream, or whatever you are using to monitor the market, then there is simply no trade - at least that is how I trade.

I would suggest that if you aren't consistently cranking $1000 per month profit trading a one lot out of one market, then you are, in my opinion, simply not ready to be watching two markets. I trade four markets, but on any given day I am usually just trading one, rarely two of them, and never all four of them. I decide based on the daily and weekly position of each market, the overnight trends and then lastly the early morning market reactions to news which I will be trading that day.

If you want trading to be easy you first have to make it simple. If you do make it simple, then you will have made easy possible. It still won't be easy to get easy, but at least it will be possible. Right now it sounds as though your efforts are all directed at making it hard on yourself. That isn't your intention, I know. But it sure seems to me that that might be the result you most certainly will get.