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Jack Hershey's Drill number 1
- Thread starter Chicken Little
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Quote from oddiduro:
666
You just revealed that you are inexperienced as a trader. Even an intermediate trader knows that as your capitol base increases, the returns decrease. It becomes harder to allocate capitol efficiently.
Best Regards
Oddi
Absolutely incorrect. Returns will often increase due to diversification among classes, capital-intensive strategies or simply brute force manipulation. Returns on OTC FX, eq index and FI market making often increase with increased capital. Just ask Rotter, the Brumfeld brothers, Charlie D, etc...
Quote from oddiduro:
666
You just revealed that you are inexperienced as a trader. Even an intermediate trader knows that as your capitol base increases, the returns decrease. It becomes harder to allocate capitol efficiently.
Best Regards
Oddi
Oddi,
You weren't able to detect just a weeeeeeee bit of sarcasm in my post? Maybe when it got to the part about buying Microsoft (the entire company) and the English language? I agree that nobody will ever become a trillionaire from trading rockets -- even if they did work. But that was not my point.
My point was, the returns that Jack claims and the returns some of you claim (like 530% a year -- and that's ONLY the first plateau LOL) are inane! Nobody has ever sustained returns of more than around 50% per year. This 4 to 7% a day stuff is totally bogus. Ever hear of Bruce Kovner? He returned less than 10% last year. Ever hear of Jim Simons? His Medallion Fund has averaged 34% since 1988 after fees. These guys are the real deal, among the very best in the business. They're real billionaires in real life... they don't play billionaire on the internet.
So sorry, no "gotcha" moment... the real "gotcha" moments are when you and others on the A Team make and fall for preposterous claims.
Trader666
So I take it that's a "no"? That you won't trade against me in a real-time contest here on ET? Think of how you could showcase SCT!
Quote from easyrider:
I dont think this is something that is doable but Im game if you can figure out some way to set it up. I dont want to trade some imaginary hedge fund. I will trade my account same as I trade every day.
It needs to be verifiable, not to mention everyone would need to use the same platform.
Quote from Grob109:
A lot of people here take on roles and do various things for various reasons. Some people are "unbelievable" to others.
Money seems to also incite certain types of refrains and intensity. A person can have as much as he wants it turns out. Deciding to not be rich and have a lot of money soon in life is a personal decision.
Who stays in ET and who leaves tells a lot.
What people do not say is often as important as what they say.
I know that I can say this or that and I can get gauged reactions from quite an assortment of people. Those who know me do appreciate the comments I make to others and, they too, usually know what will come back to me.
I have several immunities on ET as is apparent.
It is possible that some people read me as a matter of course to see if there is anything of interest to them when they spend the time to read. So I do take the trouble to engage with them and I do provide something of interest.
Getting the dummies on ET to expose their garbage is important to me because it enables me to do a better job idiot proofing the stuff coming down the pipeline that I am supplying.
Several new and deeper plateaux are coming into view now.
two posts: MAK's and 666's are in neat contrast. To 666 the first plateaux is unbelievable and MAK wonders(not really, I don't either) why 666 can't see the market's potential EVEN on the first levelsmuch less on all the additional levels.
Easy explains that his trading is ramping up continually with ever increasing money velocity. That is the nature of growth.
Sadly, gerry can't even make a list (666 only does the copy cat thing from his vast computer storage and search results) and chicken is so stunned that he cannot consider making money as an alternative to ranting and screwing up backtesting by mistakenly apparently failing to read what is written on the first plateau.
This spectrum shows that most people believe the first plateau is "unbelievable" and that they do not get what MAK is saying when he says there are many plateau. There are 6 for me and in ET I can't make it past the first except once in a while.
Someone asked how to prevent mistakes in mechanizing a fund strategy and operating method. I mentioned the degrees of freedom, the stages of gating, the interim indicator level and the output degrees of freedom. As examples I mentioned the levels of sentiment and levels of market pace that I feel must be taken into account.
Some percentage of ET know about the first level. Another percentage of ET know about multilevel. Everyone is somewhere along the path.
Among all of these people are some really pissed off people. The biggest single thing that pisses off people is seeing that there is so much money there every day and they can't have any of it. Some may not even be able to see that the standard of what is available is set by the market.
666 has a terrific set of pictures of all kinds that he communicates. And they do not even begin to show what is possible. Gerry is the same. He sees pictures that are incredible and totally distorted too.
1. Markets are huge.
2. Money is made when price moves.
3. Be in the market to make money.
4. Only be in the market on the right side of the market.
Chicken posts the two beginner elements to get started: R and W.
Easy starts with 5K. Totally believable. Chicken screws up a 1 min chart with blue lines he invented.
Easy post a 200K net account. Chicken posts that rocket do not work unless you use another thing called washes.
Easy uses washes when the rocket isn't working. Chicken complains that the thing he screwed up that doesn't work needs the thing that Easy uses.
What have I been doing? defining rockets. Defining channel. Defining new defaults for all indicators. Defining signals for all indicators. Posting prints. Posting charts with these. Doing paltalk. Writing 120 page reports. Posting Camtasias. Posting illustrated transcriptions of camtasias.
I trade. Easy trades. Gerry does not trade. Chicken doe not trade
666 does not trade. MAK trades. Nwbprop trades.
Who makes money: easy, MAK, Jack Nwbprop, others As quoted by their words in this thread.
Who is not using rockets: gerry, 666, chicken, others
Who is not making money: gerry, 666, chicken.
Rockets work on many fractals. Rockets work for stocks and indexes.
The first stepping stone to making money is doing no risk trades to begin and then build on success. This was not done by gerry, 666 and chicken. They took trades of risk, lost money, and screwed up their minds.
You are reading what people with screwed up minds write after they have screwed up their minds. Namely 666, chicken and gerry.
They no longer can use the first stepping stone to making money. It is no longer there for them. It is gone and cannot ever be found again. It has been buried by repeated failure which has been learned as thoroughly as anything these people have ever learned. What you get when you learn failure repeatedly and thoroughly is gerry, 666 and chicken.
They are absolutely convinced that what they learned, by learning failure repeatedly, is that rockets and washes are not useful or a basic foundation where success can occur while the first steps of learning occur.
At this time I think it is time to post a long series of deep and comprehensive self examination tests that people can take to determine how far gone they are regarding survival as traders. Gerry, 666 and chicken have cut themselves off plain and simple. See attached chart as a once over lightly on this test series.
Notice well. I have made the chart. An editor has improved it to a level of excellence in presentation. Notice that is it a surprise, apparently to many people here even though in one form or another it has been floating around for quite a while.
I am preparing an additional 360 multichoice questions each having four possible answers. They will be found at 60 locations for position trading and 60 locations for SCT trading. Getting a wrong answer sends a person to the place what explains why he is wrong and gives him the means to get the right answer at his original location when he is taken back there.
I am also polishing up a crossover chart for people who are using systems other than the position trading and SCT trading methods I advocate. Nine other systems are available from which to cross over.
It is like a spark plug chart at the auto supply store. You may be using Champions and want to switch to another brand. You can use a crossover chart for getting the equivalent SKU's. A SKU in the chart I am preparing will also have a short description for all ten of the systems represented.
Will gerry, chicken and 666 use this chart? I don't think so. They do not have a system they use presently. Secondly, they are not looking for something to improve what they do. They think the first level is "unbelievable". Lastly, they will never be able to get to read the chart in the first place.
Jack, instead of all this obfuscating gobbledygook, why don't you just show me and everyone else what you're really made of in a real-time, public ET Trading contest? You already know that you trade and make money on a level I can't even comprehend and that I don't. So what do you have to lose? Think of how you can showcase SCT!
Quote from Trader666:
Oddi,
You weren't able to detect just a weeeeeeee bit of sarcasm in my post? Maybe when it got to the part about buying Microsoft (the entire company) and the English language? I agree that nobody will ever become a trillionaire from trading rockets -- even if they did work. But that was not my point.
My point was, the returns that Jack claims and the returns some of you claim (like 530% a year -- and that's ONLY the first plateau LOL) are inane! Nobody has ever sustained returns of more than around 50% per year. This 4 to 7% a day stuff is totally bogus. Ever hear of Bruce Kovner? He returned less than 10% last year. Ever hear of Jim Simons? His Medallion Fund has averaged 34% since 1988 after fees. These guys are the real deal, among the very best in the business. They're real billionaires in real life... they don't play billionaire on the internet.
So sorry, no "gotcha" moment... the real "gotcha" moments are when you and others on the A Team make and fall for preposterous claims.
Trader666
666
I don't dispute that it is healthy to be a skeptic. I am a skeptic as well, so I set out some years ago to falsify the methodology. In reality, however, the methods do work. I have found through experience that backtesting has some severe limits. My question to you is why don't you simply falsify the claims in real time? We will not go through the semantics of what is and what is not verifiable, we will simply trade rockets on whatever instument you choose, on what ever time frame you choose. If you choose equities, I would only ask that you respect the float parameters on the low side. The equity must have a least a float of 5 million for liquidity purposes. Anything else is fair game.
I think that you are a genuine questioner 666, therefore I for one will work with any concesions that you choose. That is how confident I am of these methods.
Best Regards
Oddi
Hi Oddi,Quote from oddiduro:
666
I don't dispute that it is healthy to be a skeptic...... In reality, however, the methods do work.
Best Regards
Oddi
Just a question if you do not mind.
What do you mean by 'the methods do work'? What 'method' are you referring to?
Is this the rockets (a.k.a MACD/Stoch) trading equities?
Or, is it the unique Hershey methods of channel drawing, R2L, L2R, R2B, B2R, etc. etc. trading the ES contract?
Do you believe the Hershey methods trading the ES work? Do you use these methods yourself to trade the ES contract?
A lot of the confusion about the Hershey methods has to do with the fact that the terms are used in a way that welcomes confusion.
Thank you for the information.
Quote from slacker:
Hi Oddi,
Just a question if you do not mind.
What do you mean by 'the methods do work'? What 'method' are you referring to?
Is this the rockets (a.k.a MACD/Stoch) trading equities?
Or, is it the unique Hershey methods of channel drawing, R2L, L2R, R2B, B2R, etc. etc. trading the ES contract?
Do you believe the Hershey methods trading the ES work? Do you use these methods yourself to trade the ES contract?
A lot of the confusion about the Hershey methods has to do with the fact that the terms are used in a way that welcomes confusion.
Thank you for the information.
Rockets work
Icebergs work
1,2,3 works
I have traded the ES using Hershey methods
I have traded equities using Hershey methods
I agree completely that Jack speaks in very sophisticated verbiage.
Jack simply uses indicators to show when price is moving off a neutral bias, and the move is comfirmed with volume. Anyone that becomes acquainted with the materials needed to pass the CMT test will see Hershery stuff in all of these texts.
Best Regards
Oddi
In all of these threads, what is most unfortunate is that there are people who with to attack a senior who simply wants to share his life work. He is selling nothing. He wants us to subscribe to nothing.
When I first ran into Jack, I did not believe the claims that he was making either. Whether they are true or not is irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me is a man who has been doing this for 35 years. Longevity means a lot in this business. The methods he advocates are not revolutionary. They are not even new in concept, only in application.
The markets for me are an excercise in philosophy, so I am truly a student of them. Jack Hershey has a lot to contribute. His perspective has helped me, and it has helped others.
For some, it may not be enough, for others, his efforts are laudable.
Best Regards
Oddi
When I first ran into Jack, I did not believe the claims that he was making either. Whether they are true or not is irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me is a man who has been doing this for 35 years. Longevity means a lot in this business. The methods he advocates are not revolutionary. They are not even new in concept, only in application.
The markets for me are an excercise in philosophy, so I am truly a student of them. Jack Hershey has a lot to contribute. His perspective has helped me, and it has helped others.
For some, it may not be enough, for others, his efforts are laudable.
Best Regards
Oddi
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