Jack Hershey methods

Quote from Trader666:

Stages of a Hershey Trader

Cocaine is a great example of the stages a Hershey trader goes through while studying Jack's "teachings." However, each Hershey Trader's progress in transitioning from one stage to the next can vary and it's not always linear... there can be regression to a former stage or stages. For example, when nwbprop publicly flamed out he accepted it and moved on with his life but he still appears every now and then having regressed to Stages 2 and 3. Also note that Stage 3 (Denial) is not always denial that the Hershey Trader traded the Hershey "method," it can be any form of denial such as denial of failure.

Stage 1 -- Eagerness and Ingratiation

Would someone like Spyder, Mak, Procrast etc care to shed some light on the opening channel from today, and if you have a carry over channel in play, would you mind explaining that as well. Thanks guys!!
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1366605#post1366605

Stage 2 -- Delusion and Defensiveness

These strong detractors are angry that Jack is giving away the "keys to the kingdom" so they feel the need to spread as much bad press as they can for damage control.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1391363#post1391363

Stage 3 -- Denial

Also, please link where I said I personally TRADE the Hershey method. Where I tell everyone that I trade SCT. Go on, show me.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1939668#post1939668

Stage 4 -- Acceptance

I dont know if "SCT" works and I dont know that Jack Hershey even trades. I have no idea of either of those things. I personally think Jack is nuts
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1939786#post1939786
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see attached.
 

Attachments

I'd like to address one of the things you wrote in your tome:

If you allow the transfer of the JH methods to you so you can make use of them, then money will come to you from wherever it is at the moment.

Prove it. You're always making wild, bizarre claims... for example:

I do reach my goal of 3x H-L in ES as a practice.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=912447&highlight=reach+goal+3x#post912447

Yet the only documented performance for you that I know of is -24% in a trading contest. How about opening a chatroom here or someplace similar so we can all watch you make your usual 3X daily range?
http://www.tradingrooms.com/


Quote from jack hershey:

see attached.
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Quote from Trader666:

I'd like to address one of the things you wrote in your tome:

If you allow the transfer of the JH methods to you so you can make use of them, then money will come to you from wherever it is at the moment.

Prove it.

For Deepak, the manifestation has become the Chopra Center for Wellbeing.

Proving the manifestation of an example of the transfer of the JH methods so they (the JH methods) are useful in getting financial results is being done all the time and in many places. The proof would require two parts. First, the successful transfer and second, the acceptance of the successful transfer.

I believe the many journals by the end of 2007 showed the transfer was taking place and that it did take place. While it was not possible for me to participate in the journals, because of the moderating work load that would have resulted, the journals do demonstrate transference and transference to varying degrees. You are an exception to this, transference did not work for you.

So there is ample proof that transference does and doesn't work. A couple of recent polls also tacidly demonstrate that the 20%/ 80% acceptance/ rejection rate still prevails.

People who are using the JH methods and are successful continually report their usage of the JH methods.

This data is prima facia for the aspect of transference to the successful people. It is also prima facia for those who fail, like yourself. You did not allow the transfer from a resourse to you to happen. The resourses available to you and the resourse you chose to use combined to prevent the transfer. Now, for you, a transfer is not possible because of the consequences of your decision making processes. You are in the majority and only a minority of people allow the transfer to take place as a consequence of thier decision making process.

The second part is moot for you. See below your comments. I do not think it is possible for you to understand what spyder said about his beginings in trading the PVT and then going to SCT. He said he traded while he held a job and he said he became a full time traders when he banked sufficient capital to have as a backup after he quit working. This is not a comment on the 100k a year level. Spyder does not have that lifestyle level simply because of his profession and education.

I did my transfer to the PhD's led by spyder. Here in ET you see that as a manual mechanical set of processes augmented by over one hundred pages of script and script discussion which makes it suitable for any combination of platforms.

You simply cannot accept that a transfer has been made and traders who have allowed the transfer are very successful by your personal performance standards. Your standard of success is stated to be much lower than spyder's standard of success.

A person commented on one trade blotter showing 1 contract making 10 plus points in a matter of a portion of an hour. The comment was "but that was only one trade". Everyone had a laugh that day since the blotter was a response that came immediately after the phishing request.

I cannot offer you what you need to accept that the successful people using the JH methods are more successful than your stated standard. A person starting from scratch can make your annual standard in about 135 days from the scratch start wh9ile only making 1 point a day per day. The JH methods just do not make 1 point a day and never have. I believe it is absurd to you to consider how much money the market offers. I really do not think that you can comprehend what a trading plan is or how a spread sheet works to demonstrate how a plan is implemented.



You're always making wild, bizarre claims... for example:

I do reach my goal of 3x H-L in ES as a practice.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=912447&highlight=reach+goal+3x#post912447

So I put up an article for you to read and answer Q's about if you so chose so to do. In the article David Boucher uses an ATR as a denominator and he also uses some ATS approaches that provide the numerator. One of them, humorously, is the zig zag which is the crayola test. His multiple in the article is NEVER below 10X the ATR. that is a test result of his that is three times my what you call "wild bizarre claims". MAK mentions 7X; spyder mentions 6x which are in between mine 3x and buocher's. 10X.

So you are in a place where you lifestyle standard is low and your mind cannot process third party articles based on ATS results trading the YQ.

Read the article something may click for you to get you out of the sullen place you occupy.

Yet the only documented performance for you that I know of is -24% in a trading contest.

So you haven't been around much. That's life. What does watching me trade do for people who's homes and offices I come to do trading for them? What is is like for people to see and read the camtasias of trading real accounts and what is it like for the subjects whose accounts are being portrayed. What is is like for people who used to fly to Tucson from places like chicago, cleveland, NYC, south dakota, the triangle of NC, LA or San Diego or up the street or around the corner?

Have you ever seen the markets? Have you ever seen any real traders anywhere? You sound like you have never seen any real trading.

How about opening a chatroom here or someplace similar so we can all watch you make your usual 3X daily range?

See above that has been going on for years and years and years. Since about 1960. I remember seeing spyder trade the ES the first day he looked at it. i also remember that he nailed 27 points. MAK was sitting there too and it was one damn funny experience for everyone in the romm. What made it funny was not at anyone's expence. It was simply the experience of seeing a person look at a projection on a screen in real time on a day where by using the PVT template the person sat there and nailed 27 points and knew exactly why and what he was transferring from PVT to look at the ES.

How did this guy get on a plane and fly to Tucson? What made him buy a ticket?

You ask: "how about opening a chatroom here or someplace similar so we can all watch you make your usual 3X daily range?"

Do you have any idea what it would take to get everyone to have spyder's experience? Look around you and take note of all the people like you. Look at what they do and say. WTF would it look like with all the crap going on in such a place. You are sooo funny. Who would even want to be in any place such as what you suggest?

Watching me is an unsual experience. For me trading is easy. Trading is fun. Trading takes all that is offered all the time.

Think about it. What would you do in a convivial place where everyone is having a great time and really having a running commentary on the projected display of the market. Where Q's pop up and answers spring forth to be specifically responsive.

You have read a little of my stuff and in your mind it all turned to nothing but a threat to you. It angers you and it pisses you off. What would you do in a room where people were learning at expert levels? Nothing. You are no longer able to reason and consider anything related to trading where excellence is involved.

Look at how you have to be handled by moderators in a business where they sell advertising based on hits. Who in their right mind want to support a place where you would be doing your thing.

What you want is history and it was done for about 45 years. Now I don't do the road show. A standard agent run event of two hours for me would have been 19K plus expenses a few years back. Thats 20% of your annual lifestlye income, get serious.

You need to stick with the sarcasm and phishing. and hang it up regarding trading successfully.
http://www.tradingrooms.com/
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Quote from Trader666:

Jack, Jack, Jack... do you really think we can't see through your pathetic 1,300+ word smoke screen? You'd certainly rub our faces in proof of your market wizardry if you could. But you can't so you obfuscate instead, waxing ineloquently about your crackpot world of make-believe.

Hey... have you seen this yet? I backtested his patterns and they weren't profitable either. The truth always comes out in the end...
Woodie's CCI exposed by former moderator
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125024
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Are you a married guy? do you have children? Is there any thing in your life which satisfies you?
I just can't seem to find the human aspect in you. you've been arguing with Jack for Years!!:eek:
Where in the heck do you get all that energy?

I referred to you in a previous post as a person which probably has A high IQ, a smart guy, But you're squat with it.

Each and every post of you contains an enormous amount of effort and structure put in, solely to piss off Jack? Come on now..What's behind the curtain here.
for once drop your mask, and tell what drives you:mad:
 
Quote from astral:

Are you a married guy? do you have children? Is there any thing in your life which satisfies you?
I just can't seem to find the human aspect in you. you've been arguing with Jack for Years!!:eek:
Where in the heck do you get all that energy?

I referred to you in a previous post as a person which probably has A high IQ, a smart guy, But you're squat with it.

Each and every post of you contains an enormous amount of effort and structure put in, solely to piss off Jack? Come on now..What's behind the curtain here.
for once drop your mask, and tell what drives you:mad:
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This from the guy who got kicked off the Iterative Refinement thread by spydertrader.

asstral gets the boot

LOL, maybe he's trying to get back into their good graces. :p
 
Since you're still a Stage 1/2 Hershey Trader, I forgive you.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1940582#post1940582

Quote from astral:

Are you a married guy? do you have children? Is there any thing in your life which satisfies you?
I just can't seem to find the human aspect in you. you've been arguing with Jack for Years!!:eek:
Where in the heck do you get all that energy?

I referred to you in a previous post as a person which probably has A high IQ, a smart guy, But you're squat with it.

Each and every post of you contains an enormous amount of effort and structure put in, solely to piss off Jack? Come on now..What's behind the curtain here.
for once drop your mask, and tell what drives you:mad:
More...
 
Quote from OddTrader:

What are your opinions or experiences, good and bad?

Please give us the newbies your positive and constructive criticisms. Thanks!
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Since I am a newbie, I will offer my opinions on the matter.

My experience has been very good. JH methods focus on a well defined and established template for learning to see the markets operations. From my observations, it is a template which can be used in any liquid market. It is scalable, transferable and works under any market condition.

The teaching method chosen to "transfer" the techniques instruct the student to perform a series of monitoring drills which build requisite skills and train the mind through performing correct repetition of each drill. Each subsequent drill builds upon the preceding one to produce a sufficient set of information which, when correctly analyzed, allow the trader to make a decision, placing him/her on the right side of the market. The drills, when applied correctly, appear to have a synergistic effect by informing the trader what is happening and what will happen next. This is referred to as What Must Come Next (WMCN). The routine taught is referred to as MADA (which refers to Monitor, Analyze, Decide, Act). The techniques require work and time to develop and deepen. As layers are added, skill is refined, and experience and knowledge are developed, a trader establishes increasing skill levels. The pinnacle of these offering the pinnacle of capacity. As mentioned 1X, 3X, 6X, 7X, nX... The capacity to extract is based on what the market offers in a given session and what the trader can extract efficiently and effectively given his/her skillset, knowledge, and experience.

I also have an opinion on how this thread (and so many others like it) start and end.

I have read posts of those who have been successful applying JH methods. I have also read posts which claim that the techniques do not work, but after further investigation it appears to me that the prospective student(s) who found failure with the techniques - did not follow the prescription of the instructors "transference", but instead "translated" the information and material. In my opinion this is very unfortunate, but should not be the end for an individual, just an opportunity to take another path. What I cannot understand is the obsesive pre-occupation with demands for proof and the steady and regular harassment of an individual or group of people. If a person(s) wishes to study JH methods or not, is up to the person(s). What I observe is very angry people complaining and demanding proof. If you feel slighted or have tried and not been successful, I would humbly suggest you move on. If you have found benefit in JH mehtods, well that is great, and I am sure it satisfies those who instruct in his techniques. To me it really is a simple matter. But every other week some new thread pops up and it is the same stuff again and again. The same arguments have already been recorded and re-recorded and re-regurgitated and re-____________ (fill in the blank).

I mean really... what is new here (under this sun)? Peace.
 
Quote from ehorn:

I also have an opinion on how this thread (and so many others like it) start and end.

I have read posts of those who have been successful applying JH methods. I have also read posts which claim that the techniques do not work, but after further investigation it appears to me that the prospective student(s) who found failure with the techniques - did not follow the prescription of the instructors "transference", but instead "translated" the information and material. In my opinion this is very unfortunate, but should not be the end for an individual, just an opportunity to take another path. What I cannot understand is the obsesive pre-occupation with demands for proof and the steady and regular harassment of an individual or group of people. If a person(s) wishes to study JH methods or not, is up to the person(s). What I observe is very angry people complaining and demanding proof. If you feel slighted or have tried and not been successful, I would humbly suggest you move on. If you have found benefit in JH mehtods, well that is great, and I am sure it satisfies those who instruct in his techniques. To me it really is a simple matter. But every other week some new thread pops up and it is the same stuff again and again. The same arguments have already been recorded and re-recorded and re-regurgitated and re-____________ (fill in the blank).

I mean really... what is new here (under this sun)? Peace.
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First off, thank you for your intelligent, on-topic response to the thread.

But you're worng in terms of how and why these threads start.

Jack Hershey makes it a habit of going around to other peoples threads, butting his nose in their business, and then starts in with the fantatiscal claims (none of which I believe - despite your statements to contrary - in the least, for reasons which I will not divulge here) of extraordinary profitability.

Unlike your ultra-sophisticated SCT Methodology, it's really as simple as that. :cool:
 
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