I've concluded its impossible to day trade index futures manually

tradenstuff · Feb 27, 2013

i believe there are edges but they are razor thin and tiny. they can only be exploited by rigorous mathematical methods coupled with thorough coding and precise execution that is fully automated.

simply looking at charts and clicking the mouse is suicide imo. Every tick is new information that effects the edge and changes that probability. This HAS to processed by computer automation. the human brain simply can not deal with what is happening on the fly.

small_beer · Feb 27, 2013

Quote from tradenstuff:

i believe there are edges but they are razor thin and tiny. they can only be exploited by rigorous mathematical methods coupled with thorough coding and precise execution that is fully automated.

simply looking at charts and clicking the mouse is suicide imo. the human brain simply can not process what is happening on the fly.

I have to disagree. Have been doing this for a while and making money. But I keep my day job, which is not so bad because I am self-employed.

Lucrum · Feb 27, 2013

Quote from tradenstuff:

i believe there are edges but they are razor thin and tiny. they can only be exploited by rigorous mathematical methods coupled with thorough coding and precise execution that is fully automated.

simply looking at charts and clicking the mouse is suicide imo. Every tick is new information that effects the edge and changes that probability. This HAS to processed my automation. the human brain simply can not deal with what is happening on the fly.

Maybe you should consider a little longer time frame.

tradenstuff · Feb 27, 2013

Quote from small_beer:

I have to disagree. Have been doing this for a while and making money. But I keep my day job, which is not so bad because I am self-employed.

how long have you been trading, how active are you trading and how much money have you made? i simply do not believe you. maybe you swing a trade and "scored" a fat profit or something. but trading in and out every day, multiple times a day.

no.

PlinytheTrader · Feb 27, 2013

Another "well if I can't do it, then it must be impossible" conclusion. Just because you find it to be impossible doesn't necessarily mean that it is. Do I really need to make the "well since I can't make it to the NBA, then it must be impossible for anyone to" analogy? Do you really think that everyone on ET is an unsuccessful trader who comes here to bond with other loser traders as a form of therapy?

tradenstuff · Feb 27, 2013

Quote from PlinytheTrader:

Another "well if I can't do it, then it must be impossible" conclusion. Just because you find it to be impossible doesn't necessarily mean that it is. Do I really need to make the "well since I can't make it to the NBA, then it must be impossible for anyone to" analogy? Do you really think that everyone on ET is an unsuccessful trader who comes here to bond with other loser traders as a form of therapy?

id bet any anything, you name it, that you cannot manually day trade index futures AND you do not know anyone that can.

bet me anything, we'll take the bet to a lawyer and make it legit.

put up or shut up.

southall · Feb 27, 2013

Quote from tradenstuff:

i believe there are edges but they are razor thin and tiny. they can only be exploited by rigorous mathematical methods coupled with thorough coding and precise execution that is fully automated.

simply looking at charts and clicking the mouse is suicide imo. Every tick is new information that effects the edge and changes that probability. This HAS to processed by computer automation. the human brain simply can not deal with what is happening on the fly.

Yes edges are small. so you need to trade many small edges across many markets and use sensible leverage and risk management.
The markets are not 100% efficient yet, and probably never will be. But neither are the markets easy to profit from most of the time.
Markets seem to go through periods where they give you money easily and periods where they are really tight fisted. Being able to make consistent profits is a myth, at least for retail traders. It is more like feasts and famines.

Ol' Yella · Feb 27, 2013

are you scalping for ticks or something?

it seems that's what everyone wants to do.

I dont understand it

"ok, I'm buying 1498, stop at 1497"

"targeting 1499.50"

"oh crap, it got to 1499.50 but didnt fill....

"now sellers are coming in.... uh-oh its down to 1498.50......"

"moving stop to 1498.25 to lock in 1 tick of profit...."

seems like a miserable way to spend your day

but that's just me

bathrobe · Feb 27, 2013

Quote from tradenstuff:

i believe there are edges but they are razor thin and tiny. they can only be exploited by rigorous mathematical methods coupled with thorough coding and precise execution that is fully automated.

simply looking at charts and clicking the mouse is suicide imo. Every tick is new information that effects the edge and changes that probability. This HAS to processed by computer automation. the human brain simply can not deal with what is happening on the fly.

You are wrong. I have been on this forum a while now and rarely see people who have been around as long as myself, I think this is because trading attracts people who read an article about a trader, thought, "I can do that" and jump in with 3k. Thank you to all those people they covered my commissions for the month.

It takes time and an understanding of markets, if you are in a situation to continue do it, if not move on because it will probably be more painful first.

An edge is important but risk management is more important, and I do not just mean cutting losses, but letting winners run. I used to chat with other traders during the day and most of them would take 3 ticks in the ES and felt GREAT about it.

You are on an anonymous forum, remember that. No one needs to prove anything to you.

I watch the ES, TY, 30yr, 6b, 6e, but almost all my volume is in ES or TY and this is all I do, no other job, and live well.

PlinytheTrader · Feb 27, 2013

Quote from tradenstuff:

id bet any anything, you name it, that you cannot manually day trade index futures AND you do not know anyone that can.

bet me anything, we'll take the bet to a lawyer and make it legit.

put up or shut up.

Oh man message board guy cracks me up. Why can't you see the fallacy in your argument?

Have you met every trader on the planet?
if so, you know for a fact that every trader doesn't trade manually?
and if they do you know for a fact that they are all losing traders?

It's obvious that this is not true but yet you get angry if anyone points out how ridiculous your claim is. And stop with the "well if you disagree with me then you must prove me wrong" BS. No one has to prove anything to you. Every joker on these message boards follows the same formula: 1)make outrageous claims that trading is impossible (check) 2)get angry when someone points out how ludacris their statement is (check) 3) insist on audited trading statements as evidence of being proven wrong (check) and most importantly 4) make grand claims of getting lawyers involved in order to sound "super serious" (check). The only step you are missing is to stoop to correcting grammar as a defense because you have run out of ideas (pending). I wish the best of luck to you in whatever endeavor you move on to, because clearly manual trading is impossible