It's not fair. Why must I be wide awake with my mind racing when the world sleeps?

J

jnbadger

I know there is a name for it. B waves or something, but it's been going on since i was a kid. I actually remember asking my mom for something to help me sleep when I was really young. 8-10 years old or so. She said no. Thanks mom.

The upside is that my mind races and if I'm focused, I can come up with some pretty good ideas. Or, on the downside, focus way too much on a trivial problem which will keep me tossing and turning all night.

I know what they mean by restless legs, but that's because I had too much caffeine and not enough exercise that day. And not enough water. I don't believe in it for normal functioning adults. Maybe I'm wrong.

(BTW, the true meaning of RLS hit home when the young daughter of a friend of mine was in the hospital for an extended time. That I can understand. She said her legs just wanted to get up and run, but she couldn't move. Now that sucks. :( )

I know Tony Robbins once said his mind didn't even get started until midnight, and he would come up with ideas for his books and cd's and crap over the next few hours. Well, great. But what if you have to get up at 7:00 cst every morning and trade.

Signed,

46, and finally asking for ideas.


P.S.

I have a half solved rubiks cube for the first person who posts the Seinfeld episode we're all thinking of.
 
Quote from jnbadger:

I had too much caffeine and not enough exercise that day.
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Hi Jnbadger,

Switch to green tea from China (3 or 4 cups a day). Make sure you use mineral water not tap water (it's full of harmful chemicals and fluoride). It will calm you down and even your mood will change for the better. Try it for at least a week and you will notice a big difference! Here is the (Jasmine) green tea I personally use: http://www.teacaddy.czi.cz/images/caddies/Fuj1508b.jpg

I am dead serious, stop drinking freaking coffee and drink green tea instead, the health benefits are unbelievable:
http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifestyle/11-benefits-of-green-tea-that-you-didnt-know-about.html

Quote from jnbadger:

Well, great. But what if you have to get up at 7:00 cst every morning and trade.
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Well just chose Forex and you can trade at ANY time, day or night.
 
Actually Badger, you are very lucky to have this predicament as everyone I know who is afflicted by it is wildly successful. They key is learning how to manage it and then benefit from it.

The "problem" is that your physical body cannot keep up with the mental aspects thus a conventional schedule will never work for you. So do the unconventional.

The 2 pieces of advice above both the tea and FX trading are good ones, but you need to move beyond them and establish a routine to not only allow for this time to occur but to encourage it.

as I lie here typing at 5am on a sat morning, been up for an hour aalready and on my couch I am trying to remember the exact moment when things changed for me but it escapes me. So i'all just list a few things that work for me to hopefully give u some ideas

figure out the minimum number of hours you need to sleep and try to achieve it each day. For me my optimal number is 6 hours. Since mastering my schedule it is pretty easy for me to achieve nightly as 10pm to 4am has been pretty normal for me of late. But when wasnt able to sleep, it was more difficult. So I would nap frequently whenever could 2 20--30 min naps when possible.

Maintain a healthy diet. Low sugar, low fat, low everything. Green tea instead of coffee tthough i do both, water vs. Soda/juice.

eexercise. Yes i know this one is a pain in the ass especially when you are exhausted but i found that i could nap beautifully iimmediately following a workout whereas most others feel energized. Find a gym close to home hire a trainer that will bust your ass and force you to go.

alcohol embrace it but don't abuse. I never understood the scotch after dinner thing but now I do. I usually have a glass or 2 Of something nightly.

water carry around one of those goofy water bottles and fill it often throughout the day. The goofier the bottle the better as it reminds u that its there and needs to be filled!

look into automated trading. Is there a way that what u do can be automated? If so pursue it. Start by writing down all of your rules, criteria, etc. In the best case it can be, in the worst it cant but at least you'll be able to review your trading plan and hopefully improve upon it.

do not take any meds for this like ambien or whatever else is out there. Will completely dull tour senses and turn you into a stooge. May as well get a lobotomy

establish a bed time routine, like sleep training a baby and try to find a bedtime that works. After a while it become easier.

dont panic or dread trying to go to sleep anticipating it wont happen. Instead embrace it and wonder what it is you will come up with that night. For me, the initial stages of sleep are more like a meditation where im kind of asleep.

Meditation, yoga, breath training are all good to know. Helps you learn to relax. I don't technically practice any of these but i borrow parts of them from time to time.

Get outside as often as you can. If you can combine that with exercise all the better kill . Birds with one stone.

now the challenge is trying to slap it all together and make it routine. The key is to be flexible as you don't operate on a typical 24 hour cycle. Regardless, what I've described above were my keys to success, and not just a way to get more hours of sleep.

good luck its never too late for an old dog to learn new tricks.

hilo
 
Quote from jnbadger:

I know there is a name for it. B waves or something, but it's been going on since i was a kid. I actually remember asking my mom for something to help me sleep when I was really young. 8-10 years old or so. She said no. Thanks mom.

The upside is that my mind races and if I'm focused, I can come up with some pretty good ideas. Or, on the downside, focus way too much on a trivial problem which will keep me tossing and turning all night.

I know what they mean by restless legs, but that's because I had too much caffeine and not enough exercise that day. And not enough water. I don't believe in it for normal functioning adults. Maybe I'm wrong.

(BTW, the true meaning of RLS hit home when the young daughter of a friend of mine was in the hospital for an extended time. That I can understand. She said her legs just wanted to get up and run, but she couldn't move. Now that sucks. :( )

I know Tony Robbins once said his mind didn't even get started until midnight, and he would come up with ideas for his books and cd's and crap over the next few hours. Well, great. But what if you have to get up at 7:00 cst every morning and trade.

Signed,

46, and finally asking for ideas.


P.S.

I have a half solved rubiks cube for the first person who posts the Seinfeld episode we're all thinking of.
More...

I know exactly what you mean. When I was a kid (middle/high school) I used to regularly be up at 2am working furiously on some project or another. My natural schedule is to go to bed at 4-5am and get up at 1-2pm. This is actually my real schedule now as I'm in Europe for the next eight months or so, but trading US markets. On this routine I wake up and go to sleep fine on my own initiative, and I don't have any problems with tiredness during the day. Back in the US I routinely struggle with every step of the process: getting to bed on time, then getting up on time, then staying awake and energized during the day. Typically around 11am-1pm I'd get really tired again and have the urge to sleep for a few hours, but that only makes it harder to get to sleep at night.

RLS is different, I get that sometimes too but it's a physical thing not mental, as long as I go to the gym regularly and work out my legs it's not a problem.

In terms of keeping to an early-riser schedule, the only thing I can suggest is to exercise iron discipline to avoid caffeine after 1pm or so, get into bed and turn off all electronics long before you need to actually be asleep (at least an hour), get up at the same time every day and avoid the urge to nap during the day if you're tired. Make sure to eat breakfast every day. Figure out how many hours of sleep you actually need, for me it's right about nine hours - so to wake up naturally at 7am and function throughout the day with no problems, I'd need to be home and wrapping everything up by 8pm and in bed by 9. Very hard to do and still be part of society; most people need 1-2 hours less and actually get even less than that, and can afford to be half asleep at their jobs, but that doesn't work too well when you're trading from home. And then try having a wife/GF who gets up at the same time in the morning as you do but only needs 7 hours, and just thinks you're being a baby or something when you talk about needing more sleep...

It'll be a lifelong struggle, no doubt about that.
 
Get a sleep study. You may be undiagnosed as having apnea. Or maybe you're Da Vinci reincarnated.

You should get some bloodwork done, but I'd recommend some standardized valerian as well as 3-5mg of melatonin. 45 minuted before bedtime. The melatonin will get you to sleep and the valerian will keep you sleeping. A warm (hot) shower immediately before bed as well.
 
I too am most productive in the evening and night. But when I was getting up at 5:30 for trading it was ridiculously unhealthy after a while.

I had to change my schedule, my dinner was eaten around 5 pm... and I had turn off my computer by 8pm. I found that if I looked at stocks or futures charts after 8 my mind was so engaged I was kept up half the night.

Reading made me sleepy but it did not shut my mind down.

Star Trek or science fiction for an hour worked great.
I find some of my kids video games are great for falling asleep other are not.


And there is no doubt visaria is correct too, at least for me.

In summary you have to figure out what activities shut down you mind and what ones keep it engaged... Then plan accordingly.

P.S.
Heavy workouts that include interval training (earlier in the day) can knock just about anybody out too.

I see a lot people relate this to anxiety... but my situation was creative not anxious.

I occasionally have had that anxious mind feeling, which is my cue for doing something different at work.
 
Quote from jnbadger:



The upside is that my mind races and if I'm focused, I can come up with some pretty good ideas. Or, on the downside, focus way too much on a trivial problem which will keep me tossing and turning all night.
More...

Come to think about it, i have had this problem in the past. How did i solve it? Simple. Whilst in bed, I kept a notepad and a pen to hand and scribbled alll the ideas and problems and solutions etc that came into my head. Once they were on paper, i felt content and went to sleep. :cool:
 
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