It's Britney, Bitch...
- Thread starter lar
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Quote from canyonman00:
The bar for what is considered as talent is now a painted yellow line on the ground. I was told it's no longer about skills and knowledge. It's all about "do you have a message with street cred?" I really don't think it takes much in the way of training, or the wish to be, any more. It truly is a sad one when you compare today's crop of "Icons" (LOL) to some of the true old school legends.
Hi Canyonman00,
This is what our parents said about our music, and our grandparent said about our parent's music. See Ed Sullivan on Elvis - Jerry Lee Lewis, Rock and Roll or Jimi just nothing but "a bunch of noise". It had to be sweet like the Everly Brothers or Barbara Striesand for my grandparents to get it at all. Hell, if they couldn't play it on Lawerence Welk amongst a sea of bubbles it was against "family values" and railed against by two living generations in my family.
Lastly I believe art in general, including music, has to speak to and move it's audience. If a musician connects and accomplishes that on some kind of deep level with it's niche audience, then the artist has reached or has raised the bar in his/her domain. Not everyone can appreciate that, particularly if they are not a member of that particular domain.
Peace and gtty,
Lar
Quote from Don Bright:
As an "old guy" - seeing Chuck Berry in the 50's, and in the 2000's, I tend to agree, but with a small caveat.
Back in the early days of Rock and Roll, the "old school" thought it was just a horrible fad that would go away. I'm sure many of us thought the same about Disco (I still do, LOL), and I'm sure many felt that way about the original gangsta rappers, and then the hip-hoppers, Grunge guys in the 80's/90's, etc.
Each generation seems to adopt a few groups or individuals as their own, it seems to me. Who knows what will be the next big variation in musical entertainment?
I like a number of varied styles, and see the Stones when I can, love the Eagles, love Jimmy Buffett and Kris Kristofferson (I really like the story tellers, I guess)...John Denver and Tom T. Hall, among others. Played guitar with the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, Les Thompson, founder, was in my class in High School (McCabes guitar shop in Long Beach, CA). I was happy to take my son to Jerry Lee Lewis and Chuck Berry, and was even happier that he likes their music. Not much into Rap, but certainly don't slight those who have adopted it as their own.
I guess what I'm saying is that a few styles endure, some are here today, gone tomorrow.
And, yes, promotion has a heck of a lot to do with bringing in the 13-30 age group's money.
(OK, turning off Memory Lane now). LOL.
Don
Hi Don,
I didn't see you post before making my own with very similar comments. The redundancy is accidental and I would have let your stand alone... btw - you saw Chuck Berry??!! I'll bet he was just outta sight!
Peace and gtty,
Lar
Actually, Chuck travelled alone. He would use whatever band he caught up with in the town he played. Sometimes, they flat out sucked. Look at the movie he made in 87. Keith Richards makes a comment about Chuck finally playing with a good band. Chuck is a very strange cat. But the lyrics he wrote were just the nuts. "Coffee colored Cadillac". "Cruzen and playin ' the radio...... with no particular place to go."
He turned in "Maybelline", his first hit, and when he got it back, Allen Klein was on the credits. What a wild west show that was in the fifties. And Britney still makes 700 grand a month, or some stupid figure.
Hi Flytiger,
I didn't know that about Chuck Berry. Talk about committment and fortitude! shessh Many musicians got hosed financially in those days, especially the black ones.
I've got a song with Ray Charles in it where he says he won't be played for cheap. It is a top shelf collaboration done by Quincy Jones called Quincy's Jook Joint. Awesome cd for many tastes! Highly recommended.
Quote from Don Bright:
As an "old guy" - seeing Chuck Berry in the 50's, and in the 2000's, I tend to agree, but with a small caveat.
Back in the early days of Rock and Roll, the "old school" thought it was just a horrible fad that would go away. I'm sure many of us thought the same about Disco (I still do, LOL), and I'm sure many felt that way about the original gangsta rappers, and then the hip-hoppers, Grunge guys in the 80's/90's, etc.
Each generation seems to adopt a few groups or individuals as their own, it seems to me. Who knows what will be the next big variation in musical entertainment?
I like a number of varied styles, and see the Stones when I can, love the Eagles, love Jimmy Buffett and Kris Kristofferson (I really like the story tellers, I guess)...John Denver and Tom T. Hall, among others. Played guitar with the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, Les Thompson, founder, was in my class in High School (McCabes guitar shop in Long Beach, CA). I was happy to take my son to Jerry Lee Lewis and Chuck Berry, and was even happier that he likes their music. Not much into Rap, but certainly don't slight those who have adopted it as their own.
I guess what I'm saying is that a few styles endure, some are here today, gone tomorrow.
And, yes, promotion has a heck of a lot to do with bringing in the 13-30 age group's money.
(OK, turning off Memory Lane now). LOL.
Don
Hey Don,
As a not quite that old guy, I am somewhat in agreement. I would say that this generation has taken musical skills to a new low in many respects though. Today's artists are truly packaged. The talent is not as critical a piece of the puzzle as in the past. And I am speaking from overlap experience. I took a minor in music. Skills cover playing clarinet, flute, french horn, and piano as well as composition. I have very successful family members in the music industry and I grew up living the stuff.
I was raised in the Chicago south suburbs. I lived within seven blocks of the Mayfield (Curtis) family. Within fifteen blocks of the Dells. Within 20 blocks of The Chilites. It was nothing to see Marvin Gaye and Isaac Hayes practicing a new tune or two at Lou Rawls house twenty or so blocks in the other direction. B. B. King's cousins lived in the community to the north and his tour bus frequented the little club at the corner of the block that I lived on. The same can be said for Jerry Butler. And those were just the recognizable names!
Mom sang at many a church throughout Chicago, Wisconsin, and Michigan in my youth and I got dragged along. She even turned down a gospel contract and tour to marry dad. The suffrage was short though as our house was the practice ground for the likes of Aretha, Dorothy Norwood, Rev. James Cleveland, the Staples Singers, the Williams Brothers, the Norfleet Brothers, and so on. I could name drop in the music community for days. Lionel Richie is a cousin and the Commodores used our backyard many times for practice.
I've written tunes for some of the Doo Wop crowd in Chicago also with the last material for the Eldorados back in the 90's. Mr. West's mother was a professor at Chicago State university and I met her son years ago. So I got to know him as he climbed the ladder. We regularly joked about his "re-arranging" ability way back then. I have two cousins who have both made a ton of money in the ring-tone sales arena.
I still occasionally pluck out a tune or two on the Roland keyboard over in the corner to appease the ear. My home is generally echoing with Motown, Atlantic, Stax, Capitol, and other memories. Don't get me wrong though. When I can find a contemporary tune that isn't hating white folks who are holding the black man down, killing a cop, loading the glock, or chasing the ho's, you might hear it too.
We regularly debate the genre and we long for the talent to show its way through the noise. You get Luther (sniff, missing him still), Alicia Keys, John Legend, India Arie who burst into the scene and show multi-levels of ability. But they are few and far between.
I'll break it off here by merely saying, I love my oldies. Be they R&B, C&W, Rock & Roll, Gospel or Opera. Got plenty of Sammy, Bing, Frank, Dean, Dionne, Carlos, Miles, and many others. My music server has over 46,000 tunes and they provide hour after hour of memory and enjoyment. It takes over 107 days to run through the whole group if I were to lay it out that way. And that's not whole albums either. That's the hits that made it. Back then they made music, today they mostly sample and/or loop it!
I don't knock a lot of the music, it's samples from back when music was created. My issue comes with a lot of the lyrical content. Connect with the crowd? That is an interesting light. Connecting huh? Kill a cop, load the glock, slap the ho, find the blow? I am a bit concerned even if you aren't. You purchase the material. There are folks living in the midst of the madness being harassed and even killed and you find it valid fodder for musical expression? As an African American male I take issue with those who think this level of "freedom of speech" is necessary.
Twice a week I spend time in the community with the youth deprogramming them and attempting to validate the need to stop providing you with your enjoyment in that area. And while the task is difficult, I think it is necessary. They need to sell you a better message and image. And you the consumer need to demand it. It will serve us all better in the long run. Thanks!
Twice a week I spend time in the community with the youth deprogramming them and attempting to validate the need to stop providing you with your enjoyment in that area. And while the task is difficult, I think it is necessary. They need to sell you a better message and image. And you the consumer need to demand it. It will serve us all better in the long run. Thanks!
Quote from canyonman00:
I don't knock a lot of the music, it's samples from back when music was created. My issue comes with a lot of the lyrical content. Connect with the crowd? That is an interesting light. Connecting huh? Kill a cop, load the glock, slap the ho, find the blow? I am a bit concerned even if you aren't. You purchase the material. There are folks living in the midst of the madness being harassed and even killed and you find it valid fodder for musical expression? As an African American male I take issue with those who think this level of "freedom of speech" is necessary.
Twice a week I spend time in the community with the youth deprogramming them and attempting to validate the need to stop providing you with your enjoyment in that area. And while the task is difficult, I think it is necessary. They need to sell you a better message and image. And you the consumer need to demand it. It will serve us all better in the long run. Thanks!
Point taken. I too am a black american. All rap artists are not as you just described. Most of 50 cent's stuff is though and I can't tolerate his lyrics even though the melodies are usually pretty cool. Twice a week, eh? That is commendable. Many move on when they can and don't look back. Still, much of that life is a reality for many, which is why it speaks to them. I too have been actively involved ameiliorating ghetto and depressed inner city related tribulations. I won't do the oneuppmanship kinda thing here though.
Curiously though much of that gangsta rap has taken mainstream America too. I don't really get that. Still suppression of verbal expression is rarely ever the right solution. That whole thing is a slippery slope. Like government intervention in free markets looking for price equilibruim is rarely a healthy thing.
Honesty, realism and alternative ways of seeing things is the right way to approach kids about this and many other difficult life issues.
Peace and good trades to you canyonman00,
Lar